tug training

[the big chief 3,099]

i was reading this weeks countrymans weekly on tug training my lurcher pup. at 14 months just sempt too laid back after a cupple of seshions in the garden playing tug of war he has keend up a bolt load so mutch so i was tug traing this morning and the bloody twat thourt my t shirt was fair game and put a grait hole in that then got hold of my arm tride throing me round the garden. i would like to hear your views on this subject and if it realy works or am i waisting my bloody time thanks G

[123456 146]

I'd be abit dubious of it if it caused my dog to bite my t-shirt or worse my arm

[MATTI 34]

Good luck trying to take a rabbit from this dog if it decides to retrieve, i would say it is a waste of time doing this with your dog as your dog will think he is above you in the pecking order when he can take things from you, And at 14 mths old it's still developing, get him out on his job & he'll soon show you how laid back he is, good luck mate.

 

All the best MATTI

[barry lurcher 27]

i know quite a few tuggers

[trenchfoot 4,243]

Not a "game" I'd want to play! And only if I was 100% certain that the dog would release on command. Strikes me of a sure fire way to ruin retrieving, and end up with a cocky dog!

 

JMO,

 

Yorkie

[6pack 60]

It's just another game to play with your dog and can be great for boosting the confidence of a nervous pup.

It doesn't let your dog think it's top dog.

Like everything else it takes training, and can be used to help teach a retrieve and a give.

The dog will get excited, but then it's down to you to teach it what is and isn't acceptable.

Any interaction with your dog is a good thing.

[Born Hunter 17,639]

If done PROPERLY its very good. Those nocking it should read up on it before just jumping to a false conclusion as to how it would be done.

 

Gundog trainers would shit their pants at the thought of doing it but then gundogs rarely need any encouragement at all to train.

[blan89 159]

good for building drive,but can't see it helping with retrieving.

 

suppose it depends what you want out of your dog.

[the big chief 3,099]

he does let go of rabbits [bANNED TEXT] i tell him i just wont him a bit gamer gamer the better four me his retreaving ok but not brilliant he hasant bin out a grate deal any way but like i said he is 14 months he is still a baby so i will sea what happens with him

[Casso 1,256]

i was reading this weeks countrymans weekly on tug training my lurcher pup. at 14 months just sempt too laid back after a cupple of seshions in the garden playing tug of war he has keend up a bolt load so mutch so i was tug traing this morning and the bloody twat thourt my t shirt was fair game and put a grait hole in that then got hold of my arm tride throing me round the garden. i would like to hear your views on this subject and if it realy works or am i waisting my bloody time thanks G

training through drive for the recall ,retrieve etc,is as near to the real thing as you'll get,,the only time your going to need to give any command in truth will be when the dog is stimulated through some aspect of his drive ,smell of a cat or some other scent,

if the dog is responsive to you while in drive, tugging, getting him to out, dropping him in drive on command, his mindset in drive is open to your commands,because he equate been in drive to listening to you,

,in the other case if he doesn't have experience listening to commands in drive your f**ked,,you can shout and ball all you like, its called a deaf ear,because he cant respond ,in fact he equate your shouting with him been in drive,,

a dog feeling your form and your voice in his space while in drive has a very powerful effect on the dog,,

[stormyboy 1,352]

I think this has been mentioned before............I assume its for retrieving training? If it is and your dog starts fetching to you for a tug of war,how do you stop it 'tugging'? You have to break a habit you have created (without spoiling the retrieve). Think about it.........

Edited September 10, 2011 by stormyboy

[the big chief 3,099]

I think this has been mentioned before............I assume its for retrieving training? If it is and your dog starts fetching to you for a tug of war,how do you stop it 'tugging'? You have to break a habit you have created (without spoiling the retrieve). Think about it.........

no its not four retreeving its just to keen him up a hell of a lot he is very laid back needs a big boost in keennes

[trenchfoot 4,243]

If done PROPERLY its very good. Those nocking it should read up on it before just jumping to a false conclusion as to how it would be done.

 

Gundog trainers would shit their pants at the thought of doing it but then gundogs rarely need any encouragement at all to train.

 

Not knocking it, just something that I think its something that should be done without having the basics in place first. As a routine to keen up a young dog to retrieve it can have its place, equally as a way of reinforcing control of a dog in drive mode. But I have seen strong minded dogs get upside themselves when tugging, when the owner/trainer has not had the basics of control in place first. The end result being ruined retrieves and deaf eared, cocksure dogs

[skycat 6,172]

I know that it goes against everything 'working dog' people believe in, but times have changed a lot, and the old fashioned ways of force training the retrieve, or just relying on pot luck ( we know what happens all too often in the field with a real rabbit no matter how many times a dog retrieves a dummy, don't we!!) just don't suit many lurchers or the more sensitive types of dog.

 

That article was an introduction to playing tug: next week I'll explain how to train the 'give' before you start playing tug. The CMW should have put that bit in at the end of the article!

 

I trained conventionally for many years until I had a very submissive dog who just wouldn't bring the dummy right to me, by encouraging her to play tug with the dummy I got her confidence right up and she became a superb retriever over any distance, putting the game right into my hand after catching it.

 

I too was wary about playing tug with high drive, full on dogs, but think about it: the high drive pup, always wanting to be the one in charge, is often the one that pushes your buttons out in the field, running around carrying the rabbit, on a silly high, look at me sort of way.

 

By training with tug well before you ever do the retrieve, that dog is conditioned to want to play with you, you become the focus of its energy, and it knows that it gets a much more fun game by playing tug than it does just running around with the dummy in its mouth.

 

Because you train the 'give' before you start playing tug, the dog always releases the dummy on command. I trained my Airedale, and her pups like this, without really knowing the ins and outs of the behaviour, and it worked superbly: and she's never tried to play tug with a rabbit at all.

 

I'm currently training a very high drive mostly Saluki lurcher this way: the sort of pup which is trying desperately to 'organise' everyone around it, the sort which looks at you when you say 'come', as though to say, what's in it for me? At just short of 5 months old he's already a great retriever, and sometimes I get him to do straight retrieves, other times we play tug for a few seconds before I tell him to give. Once you've established that carrying something back to you means fun (tug) you don't do it all the time, and once the dog is catching real stuff, that early conditioning means the dog already feels really good about carrying to you. It's all about getting the dog to feel fulfilled in what it is doing, and if it feels good, positive and its energy is focused on you, then bringing back rabbits etc follows naturally.Hope this makes sense.

 

P.S. You also train the pup not to bite at your hand when your'e playing: if it does that you say no, remove the dummy from its mouth, and walk away, if only for a few moments. Dogs aren't stupid, if they figure out that they've made the wrong move and the game stops, then they learn not to make the same mistake the next time. But you must be in control of the game all the time. Have a look at this link: shows just how much control this guy has over his dog, but the dog is never static, trodden down or feeling resentful at the commands it is being given, because its drive (energy and focus) is being fulfilled, and there's no boring "I say, you do" commands, though the dog is learning all the time that to get what it wants, it must obey the commands.

 

I need to thank Casso for really switching me on to this type of training, cos although I've already used it, I did so instinctively, without really understanding the behaviour, science behind it. There's loads of good videos and articles on the net about training, and some not so good with people who think they know what they are doing, but don't.

 

Don't be put off by the fact that these people are training for schuzhound: all training principles are the same: getting the dog to do what you want it to do without having to resort to heavy handed tactics, or by just hoping for the best. I knew a guy with a well bred Saluki type, which wouldn't retrieve, I asked him if he had tried training it to retrieve, and he said that he'd thrown a ball for the pup and it had run off with it, and he hadn't known what to do so he hadn't bothered trying again.

 

There's so much in the world of dog sports we lurcher people can learn from, and just because their sports doesn't involve hunting doesn't mean that we can't use their methods with our hunting dogs. have a look at this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpjCAJ7wghY

 

Note that he uses the words 'couche' and 'debout' for 'down' and 'stand' (French) and the word 'out' for 'give' and the word 'yes' as the marker for the dog to resume tugging. I'm going to go into this in detail in the next article: how to fix the marker word 'yes' before you ever start tugging, and how to teach the meaning of this word to the dog. But there's loads of Michael Ellis videos on youtube about how to teach it all.

 

I've even re-taught the retrieve to my 4 year old Saluki lurcher who I'd been having a few issues with, using this method, with astonishing results, and all in a matter of days.

[the big chief 3,099]

I know that it goes against everything 'working dog' people believe in, but times have changed a lot, and the old fashioned ways of force training the retrieve, or just relying on pot luck ( we know what happens all too often in the field with a real rabbit no matter how many times a dog retrieves a dummy, don't we!!) just don't suit many lurchers or the more sensitive types of dog.

 

That article was an introduction to playing tug: next week I'll explain how to train the 'give' before you start playing tug. The CMW should have put that bit in at the end of the article!

 

I trained conventionally for many years until I had a very submissive dog who just wouldn't bring the dummy right to me, by encouraging her to play tug with the dummy I got her confidence right up and she became a superb retriever over any distance, putting the game right into my hand after catching it.

 

I too was wary about playing tug with high drive, full on dogs, but think about it: the high drive pup, always wanting to be the one in charge, is often the one that pushes your buttons out in the field, running around carrying the rabbit, on a silly high, look at me sort of way.

 

By training with tug well before you ever do the retrieve, that dog is conditioned to want to play with you, you become the focus of its energy, and it knows that it gets a much more fun game by playing tug than it does just running around with the dummy in its mouth.

 

Because you train the 'give' before you start playing tug, the dog always releases the dummy on command. I trained my Airedale, and her pups like this, without really knowing the ins and outs of the behaviour, and it worked superbly: and she's never tried to play tug with a rabbit at all.

 

I'm currently training a very high drive mostly Saluki lurcher this way: the sort of pup which is trying desperately to 'organise' everyone around it, the sort which looks at you when you say 'come', as though to say, what's in it for me? At just short of 5 months old he's already a great retriever, and sometimes I get him to do straight retrieves, other times we play tug for a few seconds before I tell him to give. Once you've established that carrying something back to you means fun (tug) you don't do it all the time, and once the dog is catching real stuff, that early conditioning means the dog already feels really good about carrying to you. It's all about getting the dog to feel fulfilled in what it is doing, and if it feels good, positive and its energy is focused on you, then bringing back rabbits etc follows naturally.Hope this makes sense.

 

P.S. You also train the pup not to bite at your hand when your'e playing: if it does that you say no, remove the dummy from its mouth, and walk away, if only for a few moments. Dogs aren't stupid, if they figure out that they've made the wrong move and the game stops, then they learn not to make the same mistake the next time. But you must be in control of the game all the time. Have a look at this link: shows just how much control this guy has over his dog, but the dog is never static, trodden down or feeling resentful at the commands it is being given, because its drive (energy and focus) is being fulfilled, and there's no boring "I say, you do" commands, though the dog is learning all the time that to get what it wants, it must obey the commands.

 

I need to thank Casso for really switching me on to this type of training, cos although I've already used it, I did so instinctively, without really understanding the behaviour, science behind it. There's loads of good videos and articles on the net about training, and some not so good with people who think they know what they are doing, but don't.

 

Don't be put off by the fact that these people are training for schuzhound: all training principles are the same: getting the dog to do what you want it to do without having to resort to heavy handed tactics, or by just hoping for the best. I knew a guy with a well bred Saluki type, which wouldn't retrieve, I asked him if he had tried training it to retrieve, and he said that he'd thrown a ball for the pup and it had run off with it, and he hadn't known what to do so he hadn't bothered trying again.

 

There's so much in the world of dog sports we lurcher people can learn from, and just because their sports doesn't involve hunting doesn't mean that we can't use their methods with our hunting dogs. have a look at this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpjCAJ7wghY

 

Note that he uses the words 'couche' and 'debout' for 'down' and 'stand' (French) and the word 'out' for 'give' and the word 'yes' as the marker for the dog to resume tugging. I'm going to go into this in detail in the next article: how to fix the marker word 'yes' before you ever start tugging, and how to teach the meaning of this word to the dog. But there's loads of Michael Ellis videos on youtube about how to teach it all.

 

I've even re-taught the retrieve to my 4 year old Saluki lurcher who I'd been having a few issues with, using this method, with astonishing results, and all in a matter of days.

can you tell me how to stop the pup doing the tour of the field when he gets a rabbit it is realy pising me of i just dont no whot to do thanks G