.25 or .22 calibre for a change.

[jasper65 6]

Its a funny one Si! no doubt about it the .22 carries more shocking power but I think with both rifles running near on 12ft/lbs the .177 certainly seems to carry more penetration flesh wise...

 

I remember a good few years back late 70's I had a MK1 Webley Vulcan brought beleive it or not back then out of my mothers catalogue , this rifle was in .22 and quoted in a old Airgun World producing around 600 - 610FPS with Eley wasps. I knocked much quarry over with this gun before decideing to purchase a .177 Barrel for about £15 back then! off came the old barrel and on went the .177 the gun was transformed! they quoted this gun useing the same brand of pellet in .177 doing around 850FPS.

 

all in all this was a gain of over 200fps and was certainly noticable! many times if I missed the kill zone it would zip through quarry like a Hypodermic needle with many dropping a good field away, going up in weight with the Pellets certainly made a difference but then again I think perhaps with experience back then I was hitting the kill zone more often stopping quarry in their tracks as I got my eye in.

 

since then I have always been a .177 fan! I have owned .22's too and still do but the flatter trajectory and penetration at range does it for me with the .177 . I now use H&N Field Target Trophy in this Air Ranger and have to say they do get the job done! they're pretty soft pellets compared to most and seem to suit this gun, the plus point is they don't take many prisoners

 

just a opinion how it panned out for me.

 

atb Jasp

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

The down side to owning a gun in .25 is finding a good pellet, i owned a hw80 and also shot a supersport both in .25 and finding a pellet that the guns would perform with was a nightmare

[zini 1,939]

Good point Big.

 

Si

[pest hunter 151 15]

I'm a spring rifle desciple and pcp's are the sperm of the Devil!

 

ATB

 

Simon

 

 

Good Thread, I'm particularly interested in your theory that Rabbits die quicker than birds. I have in the past cleanly (Head/Heart) shot quite a few Pigeons at around 25-30m that seemed to flap for quite a while, though obviously dead. My thoughts are that with the .22 pellet passing through thin bone at a relatively high velocity the internal trauma is 'minimised', However with rabbits the pellet is striking a comparitively thicker bone structure and taking more of the bone mass through the brain, causing far greater trauma and an instant death.

 

My logic here is that if you shoot at a back board of differing gauges of ply the thicker the ply (to a point) the greater the damage on the reverse.

 

Make any sense?

You must have missed the hart and only hit the lungs buddy.

[pest hunter 151 15]

Hi mate i use .177 and .22 Although i have found .177 to kill Strait away. but with head shots and head shots only birds flap more, because u distroy less of the brain so more neves are acctive. i find that the .177s kill better with chest shots due to the pellet flighing straiter in side the boady and .22 deflects in side so its harder to hit the hart. With all due respect i know your a much more experenced hunter then i. but when shooting pigeions and rabbets you can clip the brain and animal can still fly a fue feet, but hit the core of the brain it dropps strait away. When shooting a .22 you hit the pigeion in the head and 95% of the time the pellet will hit the core, although will the .177 being smaller unless you aim for the core you will not hit it. It will then become 50/50 If it dropps cleanly. Like rabbits do a back flip some times, you would never get that if you hit it in the brains core. They simply roll on their side. Hope this helps PH1

[RaiderBoy 19]

.25 will cerntaily be fun to watch trajectory wise and would certainly help to put the bigger calibres on the map

 

Richard

[markha 99]

I think the problem of prey not always being knocked down on the spot will always happen, regardless of calibre.

 

There is a very old phrase, and one that comes from mans repeated observation - 'running around like a headless chicken' because thats what they do, the sympathetic system is still working and the same applies to larger species and also to humans, they get hit by a projectile in the kill zone and its quiet obvious they have been stopped, yet the muscles keep moving - the fight or flight response to sudden traumatic impact shock is the same, the sypathetic system increases the bronchia to supply more air to the lungs, the heart rate speeds up dramatically and builds to high pressure and also sends more blood to the brain and the tension in muscles is also increased.

 

Now, your prey is sitting pretty, lets say that pigeon, you shoot and in that split second the pigeon is aware of a fast moving pellet approaching but its fate is already sealed, in that split second the sympathetic system has kicked in, it just doesnt realise that the pellet has hit, the brain may be dead but the message has allready been sent from the brain to the wings at just under the speed of light, the muscles under tension from the flight response go in to muscle memory mode and flap. The dead pigeon flies away a short distance.

 

Or I could be talking rubbish and its all about maximum transfer of energy, which is also going to play a big effect.

However the search for the holy grail of the perfect hunting calibre has been going on for many years, just look at all the research done by the military on the perfect stone cold man stopping round. Look at all the hunting calibres produced from the very early days of bullet production and home loading etc.

 

Sorry Si, I think we will always get some of our quarry species who dont drop dead on the spot, just means your going to have to shoot more and then do a lot more editing mate.

[bap 0]

Gives a good idea of pellet calibre effectiveness. All at same Ftlb on the target.

 

Though I've had rabbits run as far as 50 yrds with half its head open and brain coming out!! Wild animals can be tough little blighters....

 

Edited January 13, 2011 by bap

[zini 1,939]

Excellent post Mark mate and very technical but well explained in laymans terms like it should be done .

 

I wonder where you get that skill from buddy ?

 

Makes perfect sense though mate

 

Yep I have seen my fair share of runners with my .22s buddy, so the editing thing defo still needs to be done regardless , I just hope by going back to .22 I wont have to film so much .

 

ATB

 

Si

Edited January 13, 2011 by zini

[matt_hooks 188]

Si, I'd steer clear of the .25 in non-FAC. The big heavy pellets have such a pronounced arc out of a sub-12 rifle that holdover at anything over ratting ranges becomes a real problem.

 

As for animals not falling when shot, I've shot quite a few pigeons recently with the .22 rimfire. Now I always take head shots when possible (though a chest shot is just as certain a kill with the LR) but I like the extra challenge.

 

Now, I don't know if you've ever seen what a .22LR does to a pigeons skull. Let's just say it empties it out. It actually bursts the top off the skull and spreads the brain across the landscape.

 

That said, they often manage to flap around a bit, even when there's no brain in the skull.

 

In fact I shot one the other day that ended up nearly 100 yards away, with no brain left.

 

I have a theory that it's to do with the anatomies of the animals. Birds are very primitive creatures. Their brains are "lizard" brains, where the processes are spread out, unlike the more evolved mammals where the control has all been "centralised" in the brain. The "parasympathetic" system in birds works from the brain stem, and the spinal column, so whilst the "brain" can be totally destroyed, there is sufficient processing power to work the muscles for a fair few seconds.

[zini 1,939]

Hi Matt,

 

Yep that sounds probably like what Mark was saying buddy but with a more technical description and makes perfect sense to me.

 

Good post mate.

 

Si