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Linebreeding/Inbreeding


Guest joe ox

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It's not the mother/son or sister/brother matings that are faulty,but the genes which are hidden that we should be aware of,as inbreeding will exxagerate the worst and the best of each parent.If there are no known faults within a line then one could safely inbreed,i think a good rule is not to inbreed regualrly but only to fix a certain characteristic or trait,then go back to line breeding,most people have focused on the outward appearance rather than paying attention to what genes are unseen and combined.A fault in either parent will be doubled up more so in inbreeding,on the other hand if there are no faults then the best of each parent will be fixed,the number of anomalies caused by inbreeding just proves that breeders have not monitored the line long enough to be able to safely say there are no faulty reccessive genes in either of the parents to be mated.You could still breed from a parent with a reccessive faulty gene as long as it's mating partner did not carry the same gene,but this is where it gets complicated and most people go back to line breeding.

inbreeding WILL exagerate the worst and best of each parent? not always, CAN exagerate the worst OR best of each parent :thumbs: a litter could throw cracking pups getting what you want, then these same pups could throw the worst nightmare of a litter

How would you know if either parent had a reccessive faulty gene? or its partner did nt?

Y.I.S Leeview

Leeview the only practical method is to test the parents for recessive genes by inbreeding then rigorously culling

anything that doesn't look healthy or perfect.A less intense method is to mate half brother to half sister,it's close but

not as risky as same litter sibling matings.You can never tell what is reccessive until they are paired together,then they are expressed as a dominant gene,once you know which of the progeny carry the reccesive genes then you can select the right mating partner to reduce the risk of serious anomalies being thrown up.Also you don't need to inbreed for faults to appear if the parents are carrying reccessive genes then they will still throw up those faults,

Higgins.

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Had a play at linebreeding and inbreeding bred two litters of lurchers father/daughter and one of bulls brother/sister all litters had a big pup in them and a runt but the lurchers were very hyperactive no bad fault but that was the case.

The brother sister bull mating i did apart from the one big and one small pup they all had heart defects.

After that the closest i went to keep the lurcher line was grandsire to grandaughter and uncle to niece both litters produced what i wanted with no faults if you want to keep the line you might have no choice but to go close id be prepared to risk it if i had no choice .

 

 

When Linebreeding you are trying to harness traits that are productive to the TYPE you require, ie gameness, speed, stamina, height , ect ect. At the same time if the line you chose to use has heart defects, undershot-overshot jaws, poor feet, ect ect you have a greater chance of producing these traits. Its no good anyone kidding themselves just because they like or bred dog A and bitch B. If you have dogs bitches that are geneticaly and physicaly sound ie healthy and they are proven for the traits you desire Linebreeding WILL give you more chance of reproducing those requirements imo INBREEDING is going too far and aint for me. Even when linebreeding id say its best to find a Quality outcross that possesses the neccessary minerals next time around.

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You can inbreed as tight as you want until it blows up in your face, then just back up a step and start over again. I have made all of these tight cross with mixed results just like on an outcross litter. Most people on this internet are just tryin to blow smoke up your ass and talk bullshit theories they have that they got from some other jack ass on the internet. Do your own experimenting and breeding and see for yourself. If the cross dont work dont blame the relationship, blame the f****n dogs. They are the ones that need the blame not what particular cross it was. Good producing dogs will produce good dogs if they were f****n themselves.

 

you guys over there in the USA are well known for being in to "line breeding" :whistling:

 

HAHAHA! You know what they say, when it aint broke, dont fix it. LOL!

 

On a serious note, a fella named John Wick bred brother to sister for 4 consecutive generations and never seen one recessive trait pop up that made the dogs unusable. He noticed that their performance never got no better nor any worse and he really wished that he would have went on from there to see what the 5th breeding would have produced. These were not lurchers though, they were coondogs. I have a gyp on my yard that is out of a brother sister mating and she smashes yotes and plays rough with the big bunnies. I bred her to my male dog which is out of her sire and dams sister and have a 5 month old pup that "SO" far is nothin but perfection.

 

Once again, blame the particular dogs not the relationship of the mating.

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I had it happen by accident about fifteen years back , with my working staffords the pups were smaller at maturity than usual , one went to a game keeper who got many years good service from him , the other three went to pet homes all made old bones and had no health issues , tho i wouldnt have done this intentionally and had i known before the bitch showing i would of had the pills, it worked out ok but i think it something for the experts atb phil

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i have dog and bitch out of my last litter thay are over 2years now and doing well. out of full brother to sister mating. i may line thayer mother next somer to a dog that will not be related keep a bitch pup back for my self if that makes the grayed it will be lined back to its half brother its close but working so far .david ;)

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Dan Edwards wrote.

"On a serious note, a fella named John Wick bred brother to sister for 4 consecutive generations and never seen one recessive trait pop up that made the dogs unusable. He noticed that their performance never got no better nor any worse and he really wished that he would have went on from there to see what the 5th breeding would have produced. These were not lurchers though, they were coondogs. I have a gyp on my yard that is out of a brother sister mating and she smashes yotes and plays rough with the big bunnies. I bred her to my male dog which is out of her sire and dams sister and have a 5 month old pup that "SO" far is nothin but perfection"

 

 

Helen King of the Wistar Institute bred brother to sister in rats for 70 generations with no ill effects, and Dr Butler of the Ramsay Wright Zoological laboratries in Toronto bred similar matings in rats to 200 generations..I know, its rats not lurchers, but same laws apply..

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Dan Edwards wrote.

"On a serious note, a fella named John Wick bred brother to sister for 4 consecutive generations and never seen one recessive trait pop up that made the dogs unusable. He noticed that their performance never got no better nor any worse and he really wished that he would have went on from there to see what the 5th breeding would have produced. These were not lurchers though, they were coondogs. I have a gyp on my yard that is out of a brother sister mating and she smashes yotes and plays rough with the big bunnies. I bred her to my male dog which is out of her sire and dams sister and have a 5 month old pup that "SO" far is nothin but perfection"

 

 

Helen King of the Wistar Institute bred brother to sister in rats for 70 generations with no ill effects, and Dr Butler of the Ramsay Wright Zoological laboratries in Toronto bred similar matings in rats to 200 generations..I know, its rats not lurchers, but same laws apply..

 

Are you saying then that there isn't such a thing as defects caused by inbreeding because of these 2 case studies?

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Dan Edwards wrote.

"On a serious note, a fella named John Wick bred brother to sister for 4 consecutive generations and never seen one recessive trait pop up that made the dogs unusable. He noticed that their performance never got no better nor any worse and he really wished that he would have went on from there to see what the 5th breeding would have produced. These were not lurchers though, they were coondogs. I have a gyp on my yard that is out of a brother sister mating and she smashes yotes and plays rough with the big bunnies. I bred her to my male dog which is out of her sire and dams sister and have a 5 month old pup that "SO" far is nothin but perfection"

 

 

Helen King of the Wistar Institute bred brother to sister in rats for 70 generations with no ill effects, and Dr Butler of the Ramsay Wright Zoological laboratries in Toronto bred similar matings in rats to 200 generations..I know, its rats not lurchers, but same laws apply..

 

Are you saying then that there isn't such a thing as defects caused by inbreeding because of these 2 case studies?

 

What I am saying, is that inbreeding dosnt produce degenerate offspring. This misconception exists because sometimes inbreeding produces puppies which concentrate the weaknesses and faults of the two PARENTS

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Dan Edwards wrote.

"On a serious note, a fella named John Wick bred brother to sister for 4 consecutive generations and never seen one recessive trait pop up that made the dogs unusable. He noticed that their performance never got no better nor any worse and he really wished that he would have went on from there to see what the 5th breeding would have produced. These were not lurchers though, they were coondogs. I have a gyp on my yard that is out of a brother sister mating and she smashes yotes and plays rough with the big bunnies. I bred her to my male dog which is out of her sire and dams sister and have a 5 month old pup that "SO" far is nothin but perfection"

 

 

Helen King of the Wistar Institute bred brother to sister in rats for 70 generations with no ill effects, and Dr Butler of the Ramsay Wright Zoological laboratries in Toronto bred similar matings in rats to 200 generations..I know, its rats not lurchers, but same laws apply..

 

Are you saying then that there isn't such a thing as defects caused by inbreeding because of these 2 case studies?

 

What I am saying, is that inbreeding dosnt produce degenerate offspring. This misconception exists because sometimes inbreeding produces puppies which concentrate the weaknesses and faults of the two PARENTS

 

I don't know enough about it to comment [bANNED TEXT]. I suppose we are all programmed from an early age to believe inbreeding is wrong. unless you have the best lurcher in the world, I don't see the point in not introducing new blood. Hybrids etc are always stronger to illnesses so you'd imagine that close breeding would be more conceptable to illness. As I say, haven't a scooby :D

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I seen on tv a good couple of years back that a bloke bred brother to sister border collies for 7 or 9 gen,

and he never had a problem, all the dogs that wher bred from where used in agilaty trials.

and it changed the way i thought abought inbreeding

 

so i guess it starts at the base line,1 if the perants have a hidden fault it may or may not turn up 2 depending on how heavly inbreed or not, 3 the mix of the geanes

 

so i looked up inbreeding and line breeding on the net after reading every ones posts

 

each to there own oppinion

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