6pack 60 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 The poll is 70 to 7, think we will leave it there. Also had a chat with many guys at the E D R D Show this weekend, most just laughed but most were real workers! Real workers, as in they worked at the show? I surgest you read the post about the E D R D Show last week, and look at the pictures...... I shall do that. Thanks. But it doesn't alter my comment any. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
runforyourlife 361 Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 The poll is 70 to 7, think we will leave it there. Also had a chat with many guys at the E D R D Show this weekend, most just laughed but most were real workers! Real workers, as in they worked at the show? I surgest you read the post about the E D R D Show last week, and look at the pictures...... One of my mates went to that show - her dog was reserve champion in the lure coursing - never worked a day in his life lol, well, how tight is that, she has a fast dog, and doesnt let it do what it is best at.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
runforyourlife 361 Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Ok, lets put it like this, the people who have voted yes, for scruffing, have done it, and know it works, the people who have votted no, are giving there reasons for not doing so. If somebody can come on here and say,that they scruffed there dog, " and it left home" , "never ran for them again", "never caught a rabbit", and "never obeyed them again", and it "never repsected them as its master after the scruff" i may think twice about it, as these are all the excuses being given for not doing it..... Surely someone must have had this happen to them, or is it all guess work... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6pack 60 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Ok, lets put it like this, the people who have voted yes, for scruffing, have done it, and know it works, the people who have votted no, are giving there reasons for not doing so. If somebody can come on here and say,that they scruffed there dog, " and it left home" , "never ran for them again", "never caught a rabbit", and "never obeyed them again", and it "never repsected them as its master after the scruff" i may think twice about it, as these are all the excuses being given for not doing it..... Surely someone must have had this happen to them, or is it all guess work... I know many methods that work. Can mandy pandy a dog or beat it with a stick. I don't think any one has stated it doesn't work. Simply that it isn't necessary. That their are other - I would say better - ways of doing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lurchergrrl 1,441 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Depends on the dog in question, my collie grey would never forgive me if i scruffed her Couldn't agree with you more, i've scruffed my labrador (but my definition of scruffing is holding the dog with the srcuff and placing it back where it was, not shaking the living daylights out of the dog!!). I'd never scruff the whippet though she'd never forgive me, all thats needed with her is a different tone of voice... I'm firm on my dogs but never hard on them. They know i'm the pack leader and its not very often they try taking the piss lol Absolutely agree. If I scruffed my whippet - even tho he is hard as nails :laugh - the damage to the relationship would be lasting. Same goes for the lurcher. Who the f**k said anything about shaking the dog!!! Your at it again, changing the meaning! Lurchergurl,(dont really want to use that name, as your not) you told me not long ago your dog wasnt to clever with livestock!! You also asked me to move my dog away from yours as it wasnt to sure with other dogS, no wonder. Get them out running first before you condem anybody elses training love! I do believe you said you'd grab your dog by the scruff and push it's face into the floor RFYL - I'm not changing your meaning. You are. I don't have a lot of livestock experience. I grew up in a city. But I'm learning. The whippet has been out with the sheep, and did well. Learned quickly. Has work still left to do. Didn't need to scruff him by your description tho. My bitch doesn't like other dogs in her face when she's on lead. So what? Shall I grab her and scruff her ...? I manage her just fine without it, ta. My dogs are out running just about every day - I have in the past exercised them with up to 14 dogs at a time, ALL off lead. I'm the first to hold my hand up and say they are limited in the working sense, at present .... It's because I'm learning, and don't want to make any mistakes with them. Slowly slowy catchy monkey. I fail to see what that has to do with discussing scruffing? What's with all the personal insulting comments RFYL? You were such a pleasant fella till I said I didn't agree with your method. I have never said I know loads about working dogs. I've been around dogs all my life. I'm still learning. The day I stop wanting to learn about them, is the day I stop having dogs. I know many methods that work. Can mandy pandy a dog or beat it with a stick.I don't think any one has stated it doesn't work. Simply that it isn't necessary. That their are other - I would say better - ways of doing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scallywag 78 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 The poll is 70 to 7, think we will leave it there. Also had a chat with many guys at the E D R D Show this weekend, most just laughed but most were real workers! Real workers, as in they worked at the show? I surgest you read the post about the E D R D Show last week, and look at the pictures...... One of my mates went to that show - her dog was reserve champion in the lure coursing - never worked a day in his life lol, well, how tight is that, she has a fast dog, and doesnt let it do what it is best at.... Well that's something we can agree on Quote Link to post Share on other sites
runforyourlife 361 Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Depends on the dog in question, my collie grey would never forgive me if i scruffed her Couldn't agree with you more, i've scruffed my labrador (but my definition of scruffing is holding the dog with the srcuff and placing it back where it was, not shaking the living daylights out of the dog!!). I'd never scruff the whippet though she'd never forgive me, all thats needed with her is a different tone of voice... I'm firm on my dogs but never hard on them. They know i'm the pack leader and its not very often they try taking the piss lol Absolutely agree. If I scruffed my whippet - even tho he is hard as nails :laugh - the damage to the relationship would be lasting. Same goes for the lurcher. Who the f**k said anything about shaking the dog!!! Your at it again, changing the meaning! Lurchergurl,(dont really want to use that name, as your not) you told me not long ago your dog wasnt to clever with livestock!! You also asked me to move my dog away from yours as it wasnt to sure with other dogS, no wonder. Get them out running first before you condem anybody elses training love! I do believe you said you'd grab your dog by the scruff and push it's face into the floor RFYL - I'm not changing your meaning. You are. I don't have a lot of livestock experience. I grew up in a city. But I'm learning. The whippet has been out with the sheep, and did well. Learned quickly. Has work still left to do. Didn't need to scruff him by your description tho. My bitch doesn't like other dogs in her face when she's on lead. So what? Shall I grab her and scruff her ...? I manage her just fine without it, ta. My dogs are out running just about every day - I have in the past exercised them with up to 14 dogs at a time, ALL off lead. I'm the first to hold my hand up and say they are limited in the working sense, at present .... It's because I'm learning, and don't want to make any mistakes with them. Slowly slowy catchy monkey. I fail to see what that has to do with discussing scruffing? What's with all the personal insulting comments RFYL? You were such a pleasant fella till I said I didn't agree with your method. I have never said I know loads about working dogs. I've been around dogs all my life. I'm still learning. The day I stop wanting to learn about them, is the day I stop having dogs. I know many methods that work. Can mandy pandy a dog or beat it with a stick.I don't think any one has stated it doesn't work. Simply that it isn't necessary. That their are other - I would say better - ways of doing it. I didnt say you did change it, it was directed to the person above you! I put your forum name when i was speaking to you....wow 14 dogs, where you in the local hunt... They werent personnal, i mentioned them because you mentioned "training" it hadnt been said before, it was only about scruffing. And yes if my dog growled at every dog it came face to face with, i would have nipped it in the bud, and it wouldnt be doing it now...(my wife would hate the situation of her dogs growling at others) How did you think your dog was going to get in the back of a van with 4 other dogs?? And well realy, you should have more experience than most of us, seeing your boyfriend runs 4 salukix all the time, why dont you go out with him? And i am a nice guy, it was you who came up with the quote, i dont think we will get on because of our little argument on scruffing!!!! fickle. i will argue with anyone face to face if it is what i believe but i would still buy them a drink in the middle of it.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
runforyourlife 361 Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Plus i dont care for people who let others down at the drop of a hat.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lurchergrrl 1,441 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 14 dogs was myself, 6Pack, Scallywag and a few others out to exercise all of our dogs. Local hunt ... you're funny Never had a problem putting her in a car with other dogs .... she's rubbish at travelling mind you. But has travelled all over the place with other dogs and never been a problem. It's only when she's on lead and approached by a strange dog who doesn't read her signals that she's not happy with them in her face. And actually with a bit of advice she's gotten much better lately. But thanks for asking I fail to see how my OH's experience has anything to do with my own. Gee ... maybe I should get out with him? Great idea, why didn't I think of that? Lofti has been really kind offering me out - the problem is my lack of sitters... I can't just put the kids in a box under the stairs much as I might like to In fact that's always the problem. I have ONE person to ask, and if she craps out on me (19, popular, busy social calendar) I'm left at home with the sprogs, it's just a fact of life. If I let someone down that would be the only reason and fully out of my control. I should think that would be understandable. I'm quite happy to get on with someone who has a different opinion to mine. Feels a bit like your attacking me tho. Anyhoo back to the scruffing .... Can you tell me, what is your definition of scruffing and how do you do it? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your method. Scruffing a dog with the intention of demonstrating pack leadership and alpha status doesn't make much sense to me, since dogs don't really do that amongst themselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LDR 29 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Yes i have and yes i would again if thats what i thought was needed for that individual dog.............i was taught about scruffing and the pros and cons by a police dog handler, but things can go very wrong if you dont know what you're doing and the dog wins, you'll be creating extra probs for yourself, but this is what pack animals do in the wild and i think if done correctly dogs will respond very quickly to it............... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spookster1 24 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I think a lot of dogs don't like dogs they don't know in their face when on lead. I think giving it a doing for not being comfortable with it won't do the dog any good, just supress its fear. As for scruffing not had the nead to do it. I watch my pack and the lead dog never has to tell the others off, one look and they do exactly what he 'says' all the other dogs think he is god no messing about. He doesn't have to 'scruff' or even growl one look and the others stand to attention. I agree a dog learns its place, consistancy, patience no need for brute force and ignorance. If it works for others then all be it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lurchergrrl 1,441 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 LDR can you enlighten us please as to what the police handler taught you? I too think there's a place for it, when DONE CORRECTLY, and with certain dogs. I think it's wrong to advise it in many circumstances tho and a lot of people will resort to it because they don't really know better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shepp 2,285 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 To say other dogs don't use force to put another in it's place is fantasy. I have seen dogs pin down pups and bark in there faces when the pup has not shown what they consider to be deserved respect. Another thing is although I am gentle with my dogs I do get concerned that people may adopt a condacending so called liberal approach to what they perceive as the less progressive old methods of training. We have been living in a country that has adopted these softly softly approaches to discipline with our criminals and youth for the last 12 years and look at the mess we are in now. So to say modern is automatically right is not necessarily correct but as with feeding BARF etc some people feel the need to feel superior over others. Never mind, things always go full circle and we are begining to see a swing towards more traditional non nonsence, less fluffy, hard line thinking in this country. Only thing is how long will it take to root out of government, at all levels, those who strive to create the bloated mess that has almost bankrupted us as a country. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spookster1 24 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 To say other dogs don't use force to put another in it's place is fantasy.I have seen dogs pin down pups and bark in there faces when the pup has not shown what they consider to be deserved respect. I didn't say dogs don't need to use force I said my top dog doesn't need to do it he has respect from the rest of the pack without using any force. I think that is the position we want to be in with our dogs. My saluki bitch doesn't use force but does shout at the younger dogs because she isn't in the same position as the male, one look from him and they are rolling on the belly licking his face. He usually just stands there ignoring them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mally 832 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Depends on the dog in question, my collie grey would never forgive me if i scruffed her Couldn't agree with you more, i've scruffed my labrador (but my definition of scruffing is holding the dog with the srcuff and placing it back where it was, not shaking the living daylights out of the dog!!). I'd never scruff the whippet though she'd never forgive me, all thats needed with her is a different tone of voice... I'm firm on my dogs but never hard on them. They know i'm the pack leader and its not very often they try taking the piss lol Absolutely agree. If I scruffed my whippet - even tho he is hard as nails :laugh - the damage to the relationship would be lasting. Same goes for the lurcher. Who the f**k said anything about shaking the dog!!! Your at it again, changing the meaning! Lurchergurl,(dont really want to use that name, as your not) you told me not long ago your dog wasnt to clever with livestock!! You also asked me to move my dog away from yours as it wasnt to sure with other dogS, no wonder. Get them out running first before you condem anybody elses training love! Who are you talking too? certainly not me mate,I've had dogs for over 25 years and my dogs have never looked at feckin livestock. Quoting me you obviously mean me as well. DO YOU THINK I'D ENTER THE LAMPING COMP IF MY DOG WOULD PULL THE NEAREST SHEEP??????????. The trouble is with folk on here they spend to much time at the computer and not enough time out training there dogs lol. but when it comes down to it there experts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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