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Foxes Or Rather A Lack Of Them


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#61 scubadog

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:53 am

 

Well yes it is wrong because " who cares if it gets picked " well what if the bird is just pricked ? Are you just going to let it lie there and suffer ? These are the kind of comments that are giving the antis ammo against the shooting community.... 

the question was to Alsone but of course the bird is stone dead.Otherwise it wouldnt of given me sheer pleasure. It is a hypathetical question. The Pheasant has done its job that it was brought into the world for by flying high and fast  having been artificially put to flight in the direction of the waiting guns. The sportsman has achieved all he dreams about shooting a high fast bird dead in the air,and he has watched it come down to earth dead. Every part of its life upto that point has been artificially managed. Its probably cost around £25 to kill that bird or there abouts. My question is. Do I in your eyes have the right to shoot that bird for pleasure alone?,baring in mind its had a protected life and many truely wild animals have been killed in order to ensure its survival. It has never wanted for food or drink,and it was my money paying for all of that. Why should I worry about what happens to its carcass?

 

 

 

This is exactly the sort of crap that the antis love and that any real hunter hates!

If that is your attitude then  you need to get it adjusted.

 

You will not be welcome on my shoot until it is adjusted.

Shooting is for food or for vermin control, the pleasure is in the social activity or in the hunter gathering - not to sooth your itch to kill!


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#62 charlie caller

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:33 am

Well well I do seem to have opened a can of worms :huh: spoke to a couple of shooting acquaintances over the weekend, and they both reported a lack of foxes on their ground,so I am now convinced something is going on, if this has something to do with the weather or not or some other factors I am not sure, but it has been noted in my shooting diary, for reference for future years, and on the subject of killing, you can dress it up in any terminology you want, but it will still all mean the same thing to anti's, you are a bloodthirsty cruel b*****d that has no place in modern society, :cray: but I wonder how many of them would stick to their principles if society broke down and they could not nip out to the vegan shop for a nut roast, I bet the majority would be seeking out the likes of us to feed them, I would feed a dog first before tw-ts like them :thumbs:


Edited by charlie caller, 29 July 2013 - 08:33 am.


#63 jeemes

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:41 am

 

 

Well yes it is wrong because " who cares if it gets picked " well what if the bird is just pricked ? Are you just going to let it lie there and suffer ? These are the kind of comments that are giving the antis ammo against the shooting community.... 

the question was to Alsone but of course the bird is stone dead.Otherwise it wouldnt of given me sheer pleasure. It is a hypathetical question. The Pheasant has done its job that it was brought into the world for by flying high and fast  having been artificially put to flight in the direction of the waiting guns. The sportsman has achieved all he dreams about shooting a high fast bird dead in the air,and he has watched it come down to earth dead. Every part of its life upto that point has been artificially managed. Its probably cost around £25 to kill that bird or there abouts. My question is. Do I in your eyes have the right to shoot that bird for pleasure alone?,baring in mind its had a protected life and many truely wild animals have been killed in order to ensure its survival. It has never wanted for food or drink,and it was my money paying for all of that. Why should I worry about what happens to its carcass?

 

 

 

This is exactly the sort of crap that the antis love and that any real hunter hates!

If that is your attitude then  you need to get it adjusted.

 

You will not be welcome on my shoot until it is adjusted.

Shooting is for food or for vermin control, the pleasure is in the social activity or in the hunter gathering - not to sooth your itch to kill!

 

 

 

Well yes it is wrong because " who cares if it gets picked " well what if the bird is just pricked ? Are you just going to let it lie there and suffer ? These are the kind of comments that are giving the antis ammo against the shooting community.... 

the question was to Alsone but of course the bird is stone dead.Otherwise it wouldnt of given me sheer pleasure. It is a hypathetical question. The Pheasant has done its job that it was brought into the world for by flying high and fast  having been artificially put to flight in the direction of the waiting guns. The sportsman has achieved all he dreams about shooting a high fast bird dead in the air,and he has watched it come down to earth dead. Every part of its life upto that point has been artificially managed. Its probably cost around £25 to kill that bird or there abouts. My question is. Do I in your eyes have the right to shoot that bird for pleasure alone?,baring in mind its had a protected life and many truely wild animals have been killed in order to ensure its survival. It has never wanted for food or drink,and it was my money paying for all of that. Why should I worry about what happens to its carcass?

 

 

 

This is exactly the sort of crap that the antis love and that any real hunter hates!

If that is your attitude then  you need to get it adjusted.

 

You will not be welcome on my shoot until it is adjusted.

Shooting is for food or for vermin control, the pleasure is in the social activity or in the hunter gathering - not to sooth your itch to kill!

 

Why dont you read it again.



#64 Alsone

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:59 am

it has been noted in my shooting diary, for reference for future years, and on the subject of killing, you can dress it up in any terminology you want, but it will still all mean the same thing to anti's, you are a bloodthirsty cruel b*****d that has no place in modern society, :cray: but I wonder how many of them would stick to their principles if society broke down and they could not nip out to the vegan shop for a nut roast, I bet the majority would be seeking out the likes of us to feed them, I would feed a dog first before tw-ts like them :thumbs:

 

There's an online shooting diary now btw:

 

http://shootingdiary.co.uk/

 

You're right with the antis, they only see it one way and you'll never please them. But the fact is that shooting in most cases is a by product of pest control or conservation and it only inflames the situation when people in a minority such as Jeemes come along and declare they shoot only for the sake of killing stuff as it only reinforces the bloodthirsty cruel b*****d image and causes he benefits of shooting to get lost behind the bloody thirsty image, and that image does nothing but feed propaganda for a ban.


Edited by Alsone, 29 July 2013 - 11:00 am.


#65 charlie caller

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 04:31 pm

I agree, and I think he is being deliberately contentious, and I for one would not shoot with anyone who's sole aim in going out shooting was to enjoy killing,I feel sorry for people who can't see beyond pulling the trigger.
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#66 dicehorn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:26 pm

spoke to a couple of shooting acquaintances over the weekend, and they both reported a lack of foxes on their ground,so I am now convinced something is going on, if this has something to do with the weather or not or some other factors I am not sure, but it has been noted in my shooting diary, for reference for future years,

 

What is going on probably comes under the following headings

 

1. Because of the harsh winter, vixens were having fewer cubs this year - 4 is the most I have seen this year usually 3  - last year I did see several with 5 and 5+.

 

2. More people are applying for c/f calibres for fox

 

3. More people are using night vision than ever before

 

4. Shooters are out 365 shooting foxes - many are not involved with commercial shoots or free range chicken enterprises - consequently a vixen shot in Jan/Feb can mean 5 less in late summer 

 

The few responsible lurcher guys I know have a season for running their dogs on foxes - its what I do with my rifle shooting, I have so far this year shot 51 foxes and my 1st fox was 12th June (coincides with the commercial shoots putting birds to wood). My last will be around mid October and I will have shot nearer 100 than 50 - that's how it has been for more than 15 years,

 

Yes, I know some people permissions depend on 365 shooting. Are some of these people aware of the good side of the fox like he will eat his own weight in rats and voles every month?  All we hear is that he is a wanton killer of hens and poults - when you understand the fox you will understand that the hen house and poults coming off roost too early represent a time of plenty - if you took no action, that fox would come back again and again and carry off the dead, bury them for the leaner times - bit like when I was young - went apple scrumping - did I need the 30 odd apples under my jumper? It was a time of plenty.

 

Where I zero my rifle, that farm of over 500 acres (Dairy and cereals) has many foxes - not shot one in probably 10 years, go over there occasionally with my n/v will always see at least 5 within an hour of darkness - why do I not shoot them? Answers on a postcard.


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#67 Lewdan

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:41 pm

Ah well, some guys go dogging some go shooting :icon_redface: so what ! every man to his own :victory:

LD



#68 charlie caller

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:10 pm

It makes me laugh, anyone would think that foxing with a lamp and rifle did not exist before the hunting ban, I know guys that have been at it for years, now during the late 70s early eighties fox pelts were fetching in the region of £15.00 each, a working man wth a moderate job probably earned around £75-£100 a week at that time, now it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that if a man went out with, rifle, lurcher, shotgun, ect  not to mention lots of snaring being done as well, he would not have to shoot too many foxes to make a significant  improvement to his income, as a case in point listen to the master fox caller Pat Carey aka the warrener talk about the good old days when fox pelts were worth good money, and hear him speak about those days when everyone was at the game, dont make me laugh, the current situation has absolutely nothing to do with rifles, night vision ect, at least not round my way, although I am prepared to accept that the hard winter MAY have had a slight effect.


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#69 Alsone

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:12 pm

I've seen Charlie tonight about 10pm although I'm urban but on the edge of the countryside.

 

He was going through people's gardens.

 

Looked like quite a young fox though.



#70 riflehunter583

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:27 pm

It makes me laugh, anyone would think that foxing with a lamp and rifle did not exist before the hunting ban, I know guys that have been at it for years, now during the late 70s early eighties fox pelts were fetching in the region of £15.00 each, a working man wth a moderate job probably earned around £75-£100 a week at that time, now it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that if a man went out with, rifle, lurcher, shotgun, ect  not to mention lots of snaring being done as well, he would not have to shoot too many foxes to make a significant  improvement to his income, as a case in point listen to the master fox caller Pat Carey aka the warrener talk about the good old days when fox pelts were worth good money, and hear him speak about those days when everyone was at the game, dont make me laugh, the current situation has absolutely nothing to do with rifles, night vision ect, at least not round my way, although I am prepared to accept that the hard winter MAY have had a slight effect.

 

well I did tell you on the phone a month or so ago that among other factors, the poor winters and summers will have had an adverse effect on all wildlife on which the fox rely on not so much in the towns and cities but more so in the countryside. I bet that's the pastures you are referring to in your thread opening?

 

as for the other debate, there is purpose to all things, and very good purpose to shooting not least, in the form of effective land management, conservation and habitat management and balancing and managing wildlife to promote biodiversity and restore some kind of balance to a world that man is certainly unbalancing. 

 

all antis need to know that sex and hunting are fundamental HUMAN instincts , intrinsic to humans. antis that do not agree with hunting are denying their very existence and the existence of there own ancestors, there genetic makeup and the evolution of our species. A humans digestive track is not long enough to be a herbivore only we are in fact classed as omnivores. humans are designed to eat meat. why should we be deprived of our most basic instincts? all the better if there is good purpose. both the bible and the law rightly say we can make crops and harvest meat.

 

if it is either darwin or god, either way we have been MADE to hunt and gather.

 

therefore we are made for a purpose, AND furthermore shooting serves many a good and responsible purpose fully justified.


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#71 charlie caller

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 12:10 am

Very well put old boy, the area of land that I am speaking about in my original post is a farm of some 450-500 acres in some of the most lovely countryside you could imagine, it is however bordered by suberbia on three sides, and is a veritable mecca for foxes, they have a choice, not unique I am sure, when times get hard suberbia offers easy pickings, when times are easy then the countryside offers a haven to grow and breed, that is a simple and perhaps logical way of looking at things, however this whole siyuation is rather turned on its head when you consider that I have been shooting ect on this farm for 30 odd years, and always see more foxes when there is a very heavy covering of snow on the ground, ask yourself this, why would a survivor like charlie choose to be out in the fields in minus 6 conditions when a mile away he has rich pickings in suberbia, but at times like this, peculiar in particular to this year,when he should be living off the fat of the land he appears to be absent, at the moment, no the answer is not a simple one for sure, but one thing is for sure he will be back.



#72 shovel leaner

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:32 am

Some very interesting posts on this subject , i've noticed a lack of foxes myself . i've also noticed smaller foxes , tiny barren vixens , fewer litters of cubs . Where foxes did have litters , there were bits of dead pheasants around the earths . I also help a mate who keeps large scale free range hens , no problem feeding cubs there either . 

     I dont know what its like elsewhere in the country but by me ,the rabbit population has been down the last couple of years , i wouldnt mind betting its got something to do with lack of food due to a depressed rabbit population and not overshooting !!!



#73 riflehunter583

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:15 am

Charlie and his food chain cannot just turn his gas boiler on when its minus 5 for days on end, with the ground covered in snow, like we can in our homes.

 

or drive to Tesco to find food.

 

conditions have been relentless.

 

I know this as I live on a windy, cold moorland edge and my heating system died a cold death this last winter. it took me 5 weeks to sort it. my house was freezing. The ground was covered in snow for long periods. My transport was stuck on the lane for 1 week during the snow this year.

 

as I live and play in the countryside, work from home on a moor I can start to understand the challenge that animals have to simply survive. animals which are more used to less difficult and prolonged conditions.

 

different story in the cities and towns, although I know to well how challenging it can be in Sheffield during the snow at least there is a Tesco round the corner to stumble to.

 

I'm not saying the environmental challenges we have had are a total explanation, but when mother nature's forces are set against life on earth be it human or beast we all struggle even with our snow tires and gas central heating and our tescos. and combine this with your howa (jap engineering) I'm not surprised the foxes are in short number or waiting till you go home before they stick their heads up. :laugh:


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#74 charlie caller

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:54 am

 

Some very interesting posts on this subject , i've noticed a lack of foxes myself . i've also noticed smaller foxes , tiny barren vixens , fewer litters of cubs . Where foxes did have litters , there were bits of dead pheasants around the earths . I also help a mate who keeps large scale free range hens , no problem feeding cubs there either . 
     I dont know what its like elsewhere in the country but by me ,the rabbit population has been down the last couple of years , i wouldnt mind betting its got something to do with lack of food due to a depressed rabbit population and not overshooting !!!

Yes I am also getting slightly depressed by the lack of Rabbits in my locality,now I am sure that last years crap summer will have affected things and last year was a poor breeding year, with many warrens being flooded out, in lowland areas prolonged snow has little effect on rabbit numbers and indeed they wax fat on tree bark ect although I accept in upland areas it is a different story, myxy and in some areas vhd will take there toll, but we are talking about one of the most fecund lagamorphs on earth here, with an ability to reproduce at an alarming rate, now I am absolutely convinced that the main culprit is brock,the farm I mentioned earlier used to have a decent year round rabbit population, and there were always a good few burries you could ferret come oct and more or less guarantee some food for the pot,those same burries now have all without exception been dug out and turned into monterous badger sets, and rabbit numbers are low,in contrast I have some land further north in Yorkshire,where I have some roe stalking and help control fox and rabbit numbers, now last year the place was under water for several weeks and any rabbit that stayed underground must have perished,however the signs are good that rabbit numbers are high this year,I wonder if the fact that this ground holds very few if any badgers has any bearing on things???? :hmm:



#75 jeemes

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:58 am

 

it has been noted in my shooting diary, for reference for future years, and on the subject of killing, you can dress it up in any terminology you want, but it will still all mean the same thing to anti's, you are a bloodthirsty cruel b*****d that has no place in modern society, :cray: but I wonder how many of them would stick to their principles if society broke down and they could not nip out to the vegan shop for a nut roast, I bet the majority would be seeking out the likes of us to feed them, I would feed a dog first before tw-ts like them :thumbs:

 

There's an online shooting diary now btw:

 

http://shootingdiary.co.uk/

 

You're right with the antis, they only see it one way and you'll never please them. But the fact is that shooting in most cases is a by product of pest control or conservation and it only inflames the situation when people in a minority such as Jeemes come along and declare they shoot only for the sake of killing stuff as it only reinforces the bloodthirsty cruel b*****d image and causes he benefits of shooting to get lost behind the bloody thirsty image, and that image does nothing but feed propaganda for a ban.

 

Its a pity you didnt understand I wasnt particularly talking about myself but putting forward a question for debate. The fact is that the pest controller by definition must be more blood thirsty (as you put it)than the sportsman. One is looking for quality and the other is looking for quantity. 




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