Will Boris be gone by tomorrow ?

[Nicepix 5,650]

16 minutes ago, greg64 said:

hardly oven ready though was it 

It couldn't be. The EU have played dirty all along and prolonged every negotiation. They have used the Irish situation not only to thwart Brexit, but to undermine the UK Government. There is no reason the Irish border cannot be as soff as the Swiss border is. But they wouldn't allow it. 

[WILF 49,937]

2 minutes ago, Nicepix said:

It couldn't be. The EU have played dirty all along and prolonged every negotiation. They have used the Irish situation not only to thwart Brexit, but to undermine the UK Government. There is no reason the Irish border cannot be as soff as the Swiss border is. But they wouldn't allow it. 

I may be way off the mark here, but I always wondered why we didn’t just call the EU bluff and say “Right, we don’t want a border and we won’t be doing any checks coming our way” ?

Then it would have forced the EU to make ireland put in a border because let’s face it, it’s them that want it really isn’t it ? 
 

Make them the bad guy.

[chartpolski 27,876]

11 minutes ago, WILF said:

Of course all absolutely true, and as I said, it was just a thought that crossed my mind.

I suppose the conundrum could be not if it was worth it but how do we get past a political class that don’t want it.

I don’t think we are talking about a single set of MPs to overcome here, I think this is generational…..it’s the whole political system imho 

To me the logical answer is that it starts with the electorate…..we have to convince libertarian type parties with a nationalist tendency to start fielding candidates and vote for them so they field more…….can you see the electorate having the collective wherewithal to do that ? 
 

Or do we weaken the existing big two with votes for smaller yet established parties….like the Lib Dems ?

Would that create some space for other parties ? 
 

Im constantly told voting is a waste of time but I am aware that it’s the only weapon we have…..anyway, no big deal, just thinking out loud.

We put the fear of God, ( or the fear of Farage), up the two main parties when we voted overwhelmingly for the Brexit party during the European Elections and when four million of us voted for UKIP in the UK General Electon.

Sadly "first past the post" system of voting meant the SNP got over 50 seats with less votes than UKIP, Who only got one seat.

The two main parties will never change the electoral system to something like Proportional Representation because it would break their two party monopoly!

I don't know the answer, all I can do personally is vote Reform Party, or if they aren't standing a candidate in my constituency, I'll vote for an independent who's policies most mirror my own

Cheers.

Edited July 8, 2022 by chartpolski

[Nicepix 5,650]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

I may be way off the mark here, but I always wondered why we didn’t just call the EU bluff and say “Right, we don’t want a border and we won’t be doing any checks coming our way” ?

Then it would have forced the EU to make ireland put in a border because let’s face it, it’s them that want it really isn’t it ? 
 

Make them the bad guy.

My thoughts exactly. 

[Born Hunter 17,910]

2 minutes ago, WILF said:

Of course all absolutely true, and as I said, it was just a thought that crossed my mind.

I suppose the conundrum could be not if it was worth it but how do we get past a political class that don’t want it.

I don’t think we are talking about a single set of MPs to overcome here, I think this is generational…..it’s the whole political system imho 

To me the logical answer is that it starts with the electorate…..we have to convince libertarian type parties with a nationalist tendency to start fielding candidates and vote for them so they field more…….can you see the electorate having the collective wherewithal to do that ? 
 

Or do we weaken the existing big two with votes for smaller yet established parties….like the Lib Dems ?

Would that create some space for other parties ? 
 

Im constantly told voting is a waste of time but I am aware that it’s the only weapon we have…..anyway, no big deal, just thinking out loud.

I genuinely think you'd have more luck convincing the electorate to vote for a nationalist tyrant than you would a libertarian.

I also think you'd have more chance of driving change from within Lab/Con than you have of a third party laying waste to them. UKIP proved that pressure from a third party can force change from within. It's a distasteful strategy, but time and time again I see the two party system be restored and the only change happening as a result of internal change from the big two. Trump is another example, failed as an indy and succeeded from within an establishment party.

I think you're right that this starts at grass roots though. Engaging with the common man on the ground is the only way. Make the unspeakable regular conversation and palatable. Because usually, it is.

Case and point, all this transgender bollocks is utterly mainstream in the narrative, yet how many proponents do you actually encounter in real life? Everyone knows someone's daughter who beats the drum but that's literally it. Truth is it's not a mainstream view at all, it's just a mainstream toleration because of fear due to the narrative.

I speak openly and freely about all sorts but I do it in a respectful and non hateful way and even raving liberals will engage with me. Most people aren't opposed to conversation if it's presented respectfully. 

[jukel123 9,416]

Libertarianism is not a right wing philosophy, nor was leaving Europe necessarily . Lots of lefties like me support libertarianism and opposed EU membership.  I agree we have yet to see the benefit of  leaving. I have a mate who is head dairyman on a massive farm. Since we left the EU they have  had to reduce production because they  cannnot get people to work for a tenner an hour. The job entails paddling in shit,getting shat and pissed on every day, occasionally getting kicked and shift work. He asked me if I would do a few hours part time work. I said OK I'll do a few hours a week for £30 an hour but not for a tenner.

My point is employers have to get  used to the idea that labour shortages means they must make wages competitive. That has yet to happen. The default wage is still the minimum wage. The endless pool of cheap disposable labour has gone, but employers haven't yet adjusted to that new reality.

Edited July 8, 2022 by jukel123

[WILF 49,937]

2 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

I genuinely think you'd have more luck convincing the electorate to vote for a nationalist tyrant than you would a libertarian.

I also think you'd have more chance of driving change from within Lab/Con than you have of a third party laying waste to them. UKIP proved that pressure from a third party can force change from within. It's a distasteful strategy, but time and time again I see the two party system be restored and the only change happening as a result of internal change from the big two. Trump is another example, failed as an indy and succeeded from within an establishment party.

I think you're right that this starts at grass roots though. Engaging with the common man on the ground is the only way. Make the unspeakable regular conversation and palatable. Because usually, it is.

Case and point, all this transgender bollocks is utterly mainstream in the narrative, yet how many proponents do you actually encounter in real life? Everyone knows someone's daughter who beats the drum but that's literally it. Truth is it's not a mainstream view at all, it's just a mainstream toleration because of fear due to the narrative.

I speak openly and freely about all sorts but I do it in a respectful and non hateful way and even raving liberals will engage with me. Most people aren't opposed to conversation if it's presented respectfully. 

I do exactly the same mate…..more of that required

[WILF 49,937]

32 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Libertarianism is not a right wing philosophy, nor was leaving Europe necessarily . Lots of lefties like me support libertarianism and opposed EU membership.  I agree we have yet to see the benefit of  leaving. I have a mate who is head dairyman on a massive farm. Since we left the EU they have  had to reduce production because they  cannnot get people to work for a tenner an hour. The job entails paddling in shit,getting shat and pissed on every day, occasionally getting kicked and shift work. He asked me if I would do a few hours part time work. I said OK I'll do a few hours a week for £30 an hour but not for a tenner.

My point is employers have to get  used to the idea that labour shortages means they must make wages competitive. That has yet to happen. The default wage is still the minimum wage. The endless pool of cheap disposable labour has gone, but employers haven't yet adjusted to that new reality.

Do you think that will require a total re-engineering of economy/society ?

I mean, for so long money hasn’t been linked to anything….it just existed in the ether and things have been set up to shield us from real prices and the real cost.

 

[Nicepix 5,650]

There are some very big issues that are going to have to be addressed including uncontrolled immigration and the unemployment situation. The country cannot afford either long term.

[jukel123 9,416]

19 minutes ago, WILF said:

Do you think that will require a total re-engineering of economy/society ?

I mean, for so long money hasn’t been linked to anything….it just existed in the ether and things have been set up to shield us from real prices and the real cost.

 

Im out of my depth answering that question mate. All I know is that the British economy is a basket case compared to the rest of the G7. The future for youngsters looks really bleak. It will need somebody special to get us out of this shit.

[DIDO.1 22,862]

36 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Im out of my depth answering that question mate. All I know is that the British economy is a basket case compared to the rest of the G7. The future for youngsters looks really bleak. It will need somebody special to get us out of this shit.

Why compared to the rest of the G7? 

[VOON 1,317]

5 hours ago, chartpolski said:

Valid points, Wilf.

Yes, we have left the E U and there are many things we can now do that the EU imposed upon us.

So, why do we not do them ?

Well, in my opinion it's because the majority of politicians, civil servants and msn were, and are, dead set against Brexit, and even though the majority of people voted for it, the remainers have done, and will do, everything they can to delay, stymie and eventually overturn the democratic will of the people.

The "Noble Lords" Heseltine and Adonis have already said on televised interviews " Now Boris is gone, Brexit is gone" ! 

They don't even try to hide or disguise their ignoble aims.

Lets be clear, if this was war time, they would be tried as traitors, but of course there's no such crime as treason now, since Blair changed the law.....that was very foresighted of him !

Cheers.

Like what?

[jukel123 9,416]

4 minutes ago, DIDO.1 said:

Why compared to the rest of the G7? 

I'm basing my post on this article mate.

Six charts that show how the UK economy is in crisis | Economic growth (GDP) | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

From inflation to tax, labour shortages to R&D, ministers will need to confront these key issues and fast

 

[VOON 1,317]

3 hours ago, Nicepix said:

It couldn't be. The EU have played dirty all along and prolonged every negotiation. They have used the Irish situation not only to thwart Brexit, but to undermine the UK Government. There is no reason the Irish border cannot be as soff as the Swiss border is. But they wouldn't allow it. 

Bull crap

[Nicepix 5,650]

1 minute ago, VOON said:

Bull crap

Care to offer some explanation or alternative opinion?