BGD 6,385 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, kanny said: Even jezza's own mps don't know what glue he's sniffing he's about as transparent as the Irish channel ..in out in out shake it all about don't get it twisted man just saying like I said earlier up the thread we need to know what we are actually going for with brexit I'm not buying all this we can't reveal our hand quite the opposite we should be bluffing like a gudden telling the EU its beyond a hard brexit we should have Armageddon brexit faces on ....there's no please all scenario to be had better they just pin there colours to the mast and go for it imo "Labour’s current position is that Britain should leave the single market and customs union but retain as much access as possible to both. Mr Corbyn has also suggested the UK could form a new customs union with the EU after Brexit." Seems like a pretty clear outline of Labour's position to me? Leave the Single Market and Customs Union and negotiate a bespoke trade deal with the EU, what's wrong with that? It's certainly equivalent to the actual government's position and they're the one currently engaged in the negotiations! The problem the Blairite MPs in thst article have is that Corbyn isn't calling for a stop to Brexit or a second referendum, I would have thought you'd agree with that. And all of this still has nothing to do with government transparency and them holding back key information from the public in contradiction to the will of Parliament... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,358 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 I think the point a few of you are all rather missing is.......it don’t and shouldn’t matter what the f**k it says or how accurate it is. A majority of the turnout voted for an independent, sovereign nation free from being the puppet of an unelected power body far away from its own shores. Give people what they voted for and what they voted for was OUT and whatever go’s with it ! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, WILF said: I think the point a few of you are all rather missing is.......it don’t and shouldn’t matter what the f**k it says or how accurate it is. A majority of the turnout voted for an independent, sovereign nation free from being the puppet of an unelected power body far away from its own shores. Give people what they voted for and what they voted for was OUT and whatever go’s with it ! The die has been cast as they say. I don't think there is any harm in being informed, especially if this information allows some of the possible pitfalls to be lessened or avoided completely. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 19,443 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, BGD said: "Labour’s current position is that Britain should leave the single market and customs union but retain as much access as possible to both. Mr Corbyn has also suggested the UK could form a new customs union with the EU after Brexit." Seems like a pretty clear outline of Labour's position to me? Leave the Single Market and Customs Union and negotiate a bespoke trade deal with the EU, what's wrong with that? It's certainly equivalent to the actual government's position and they're the one currently engaged in the negotiations! The problem the Blairite MPs in thst article have is that Corbyn isn't calling for a stop to Brexit or a second referendum, I would have thought you'd agree with that. And all of this still has nothing to do with government transparency and them holding back key information from the public in contradiction to the will of Parliament... Fair enough I admit it was tenuous lol Problem is a 15 year weather forcast would be about as accurate as a 15 year economy forcast so how much exactly can you read into them ....now i think most who voted for brexit except theres going to be some disruption to the economy but there also the sort of people who believe the uk still has the minerals to dust its self of get its head fown and make the most of the new opportunities to rebuild the economy past its current level and on our own terms . I agree there needs to be more transparency but transparency on what we are hoping to achieve in terms of what position we are in when we leave the EU not what might not or might be in the next 15 years which is about all these models can deliver and that's not transparent at all is it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,358 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: The die has been cast as they say. I don't think there is any harm in being informed, especially if this information allows some of the possible pitfalls to be lessened or avoided completely. All I will say is mate, I can almost guarantee that nearly nobody went into that polling both and thought “I hope it’s a soft Brexit or a hard Brexit” or “I wonder what the long term economic forecast is?” As they put their X in the box......almost to a man they thought “let’s get the f**k out” and that’s it and that’s all my friend . People voted, they spoke.......no subsequent propaganda one way or the other should be in the least bit relevant. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,385 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, kanny said: Fair enough I admit it was tenuous lol Problem is a 15 year weather forcast would be about as accurate as a 15 year economy forcast so how much exactly can you read into them ....now i think most who voted for brexit except theres going to be some disruption to the economy but there also the sort of people who believe the uk still has the minerals to dust its self of get its head fown and make the most of the new opportunities to rebuild the economy past its current level and on our own terms . I agree there needs to be more transparency but transparency on what we are hoping to achieve in terms of what position we are in when we leave the EU not what might not or might be in the next 15 years which is about all these models can deliver and that's not transparent at all is it. Sorry but to me that just sounds like "I want to hear the positive possible outcomes but not that bad" Let's be honest if this leak had said the hardest of possible Brexit would be amazing for the economy and everything was going to be great you wouldn't be sitting here saying "Well, these forecasts are terribly unreliable I wouldn't put much faith in them" would you? All I'm saying we should see all the information, good and bad so we know what the government is using to make their decisions on how to proceed with negotiations. Plus just the very principle of the government withholding information like that from the public for political reasons is something that should be challenged, IMO. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,358 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 NONE OF IT IS RELEVANT ! .........except to those who want to overturn or water down the result of a demorcratic vote 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, WILF said: People voted, they spoke.......no subsequent propaganda one way or the other should be in the least bit relevant. Aye, but if I was planning on driving China to negotiate a trade deal I'd at least want an up to date map! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 19,443 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, BGD said: Sorry but to me that just sounds like "I want to hear the positive possible outcomes but not that bad" Let's be honest if this leak had said the hardest of possible Brexit would be amazing for the economy and everything was going to be great you wouldn't be sitting here saying "Well, these forecasts are terribly unreliable I wouldn't put much faith in them" would you? All I'm saying we should see all the information, good and bad so we know what the government is using to make their decisions on how to proceed with negotiations. Plus just the very principle of the government withholding information like that from the public for political reasons is something that should be challenged, IMO. Actually if the leak had said that id have been highly suspicious From my understanding the leak is part of a unfinished report so not ready for release yet and mps are going to get the chance to see the report in full on completion and vote on it I presume correct me if I'm wrong it will become available to the public at that point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, kanny said: From my understanding the leak is part of a unfinished report so not ready for release yet and mps are going to get the chance to see the report in full on completion and I presume correct me if I'm wrong it will become available to the public at that point. 4 That's what we're hanging on. I'd want someone that isn't an MP to make an honest assessment of it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,385 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, kanny said: Actually if the leak had said that id have been highly suspicious From my understanding the leak is part of a unfinished report so not ready for release yet and mps are going to get the chance to see the report in full on completion and I presume correct me if I'm wrong it will become available to the public at that point. That's the spin the government have put out but these impact assessments have been talked about for a while now and if you talk to people in Westminster they've been aware of them existing and waiting for the leak since before Christmas... We'll wait and see what they actually release but it's obvious whatever that is will be the result of pressure from this leak that has forced their hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 19,443 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: That's what we're hanging on. I'd want someone that isn't an MP to make an honest assessment of it. It would still be only speculative nothing changes that ...i agree its good to have a heads up to plan a counter strategy to any pitfalls but its very limited on what foresight can be gained imo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, kanny said: It would still be only speculative nothing changes that ...i agree its good to have a heads up to plan a counter strategy to any pitfalls but its very limited on what foresight can be gained imo 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,358 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 For “negotiate the best possible outcome for the British people” see “negotiate the best possible outcome for my chums at Goldman Sacks who pay for my holidays” You are debating absolute nonsense lads ;).......as I have said, it really shouldn’t matter......that’s THE most important part of the whole process for everyone in the world never mind Britain. Your democracy has been turned into a joke.....f**k sake, don’t help them do it even more. Just getting an “out out” with no bullshit should matter to every advocate of freedom everywhere no matter what your stance on Brexit or political allegiance 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 Well, they're not going to release it anyway... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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