Lost Generation 93 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Catching the odd bit of game doesn't make it a worker, I worked on a stable yand and they had a deerhound, caught a couple of muntjac but wouldn't consider it a working dog, big useless brain dead plodder What does make a worker in your eyes? How often does a dog have to work to be considered a worker? I live in a place with a lot of game all around. Now, year in year out, barring illness and business trips away, I have worked my dogs just about every day of the year for more than 40 years now. I do a lot of daytime work with terriers, lurchers and hounds and some lamping. I used to do a lot more lamping but not so much now, except as we roll into winter most of the time I am taking the dogs out in the evening in the dark, so I take the lamp with me and run whatever I come across and I come across a lot of stuff! I am very fortunate to live somewhere where a toddle up the road for a few hundred yards gets me among the game and I'm also lucky in having sufficient types and numbers of game to always have something suitable in season to work, so, does working it every day make my deerhound bitch a worker or not? A dog that can do its job consistently A dog that missed every head of game it ever chased would be perfectly consistent and hence a worker in your eyes Quote Link to post
ratmogit 16 Posted October 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) Catching the odd bit of game doesn't make it a worker, I worked on a stable yand and they had a deerhound, caught a couple of muntjac but wouldn't consider it a working dog, big useless brain dead plodder out of interest what dog do you run?Always ran salukis but after losing my last dog tempted to try a kelpie greyhound right, got you..... I'm sure I've seen a kelpie x on a video, the Lamper maybe?? Edited October 26, 2016 by ratmogit Quote Link to post
gamerooster 1,179 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Catching the odd bit of game doesn't make it a worker, I worked on a stable yand and they had a deerhound, caught a couple of muntjac but wouldn't consider it a working dog, big useless brain dead plodder What does make a worker in your eyes? How often does a dog have to work to be considered a worker? I live in a place with a lot of game all around. Now, year in year out, barring illness and business trips away, I have worked my dogs just about every day of the year for more than 40 years now. I do a lot of daytime work with terriers, lurchers and hounds and some lamping. I used to do a lot more lamping but not so much now, except as we roll into winter most of the time I am taking the dogs out in the evening in the dark, so I take the lamp with me and run whatever I come across and I come across a lot of stuff! I am very fortunate to live somewhere where a toddle up the road for a few hundred yards gets me among the game and I'm also lucky in having sufficient types and numbers of game to always have something suitable in season to work, so, does working it every day make my deerhound bitch a worker or not? A dog that can do its job consistently A dog that missed every head of game it ever chased would be perfectly consistent and hence a worker in your eyes 'Job' is the keyword Quote Link to post
morton 5,367 Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 What could a dog bring to lurcher breeding that hasn't been worked properly in hundreds of years over a collie that are some of the most talented working dogs out there Well, I must have been hallucinating earlier this afternoon then when my deerhound bitch, (bred from a long line of workers or did I hallucinate that as well) was out with the terriers, and appeared to be appeared to be working (and working well) the game they turned out of cover. In my experience something north of 50% of UK deerhounds work live game which is probably a higher percentage of workers that you will find among collies these days most of which don't do anything more than chase balls around the park. Im more than pleased you own a Deerhoundy that see,s graft,few pures are working bred they are KC bred and conform to show and non working standards.The mongrel bred Deerhoundy,s are a better representation of the original than anything KC bred.The lads that own hybrid Deerhounds and graft them may be the only chance this breed will ever have of being salvaged from the KC scrapheap of ruined working breeds.I certainly agree that an awful lot of Collies are bred for the pet trade,yet its easy enough to source a working one,thats where the percentages swing massively in the Collies favour. 1 Quote Link to post
Lost Generation 93 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 What could a dog bring to lurcher breeding that hasn't been worked properly in hundreds of years over a collie that are some of the most talented working dogs out there Well, I must have been hallucinating earlier this afternoon then when my deerhound bitch, (bred from a long line of workers or did I hallucinate that as well) was out with the terriers, and appeared to be appeared to be working (and working well) the game they turned out of cover. In my experience something north of 50% of UK deerhounds work live game which is probably a higher percentage of workers that you will find among collies these days most of which don't do anything more than chase balls around the park. Im more than pleased you own a Deerhoundy that see,s graft,few pures are working bred they are KC bred and conform to show and non working standards.The mongrel bred Deerhoundy,s are a better representation of the original than anything KC bred.The lads that own hybrid Deerhounds and graft them may be the only chance this breed will ever have of being salvaged from the KC scrapheap of ruined working breeds.I certainly agree that an awful lot of Collies are bred for the pet trade,yet its easy enough to source a working one,thats where the percentages swing massively in the Collies favour. Virtually all deerhounds are KC registered but that makes no difference to whether they are worked or not or how well they work. Pre-ban, a lot of the most successful show dogs also ran and did very well on the coursing field in regular organised coursing deerhound and deerhound / saluki meets and informally day to day on a range of quarry. These days in the UK we can't legally organise coursing meetings but many dogs who are shown continue to work live quarry. My own bitch has successful showdogs in her pedigree but the line she is from has also always extensively worked suitable live quarry. It is just a nonsense to think that show dogs and working dogs are something completely separate. Quote Link to post
roybo 2,873 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 In a LOT of breeds they are totally different . Look at most gun dogs collies gsds etc etc. Unless dogs have a purpose and are bred from to that ends working dogs suffer greatly from k.c. shows . You only have to look at a show type greyhound to see they are a different animal to a racing type,and racing type different to an older type coursing dog. The deerhound fairs no better. Form should follow function unfortunately with showing that isn't the case 3 Quote Link to post
Lost Generation 93 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 In a LOT of breeds they are totally different . Look at most gun dogs collies gsds etc etc. Unless dogs have a purpose and are bred from to that ends working dogs suffer greatly from k.c. shows . You only have to look at a show type greyhound to see they are a different animal to a racing type,and racing type different to an older type coursing dog. The deerhound fairs no better. Form should follow function unfortunately with showing that isn't the case Generally I agree with you. Show breeding has ruined many breeds and created monsters along the way. If you are going to have breed standards for working breeds then those standards need to reflect an ideal working conformation and be adhered to. A lot of deerhounds now are bigger than they were historically and have a smaller colour range - but you can blame that on the writings of Sir Walter Scott who made grey the fashionable colour for these hounds. Fortunately a significant proportion of deerhound owners have always worked and continue to work their hounds and thanks to Mr Cassells and others the deerhound club organised coursing meets for members until coursing was banned and back in the 1950's before the law changed in Scotland, both deer and hares would be coursed at club meets. Quote Link to post
Maximus Ferret 2,055 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 And generally I agree with you too Lost Generation but........ I'm a member of this forum http://scottish-deerhound.com/ and not only do most of the people not seem to work their dogs but Bill Doherty was advised not to talk on the forum about running game as it gave a bad image to the deerhound. FFS that's DEERhound. If you know people who work their hounds that's great because without that you'll never know which studs might pass on the right temperament to breed a worthwhile lurcher. Each generation that passes with hounds being bred without consideration of whether they are inclined to work or not makes it less likely that they will but at least you'll be in a position to choose a decent stud. Still I think that since Bill stopped breeding there isn't anyone who tries out their hounds to the extent he did. For that reason I'd agree with Morton that a lot of the time breeding from deerhound hybrids that are bred soley for work may be a better choice than breeding from pures that are bred for show conformation as most Kennel Club hounds seem to be these days. Anyway, good hunting to you mate. If you have any pics of your hounds I'd love to see them. I'm really fond of both pures and crosses. 2 Quote Link to post
roybo 2,873 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Yea mate I appreciate they did organised coursing for years, but out of interest ,was the most successful coursing dog ever the most successful show dog ? Not a loaded question as I have no idea,but that would give you some idea of what the clubs priority is/was. This is in no way knocking them as I've never owned one ,but at the same time it would be great to see them for what they could be 1 Quote Link to post
MIK 4,754 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) What could a dog bring to lurcher breeding that hasn't been worked properly in hundreds of years over a collie that are some of the most talented working dogs out there Well, I must have been hallucinating earlier this afternoon then when my deerhound bitch, (bred from a long line of workers or did I hallucinate that as well) was out with the terriers, and appeared to be appeared to be working (and working well) the game they turned out of cover. In my experience something north of 50% of UK deerhounds work live game which is probably a higher percentage of workers that you will find among collies these days most of which don't do anything more than chase balls around the park. Im more than pleased you own a Deerhoundy that see,s graft,few pures are working bred they are KC bred and conform to show and non working standards.The mongrel bred Deerhoundy,s are a better representation of the original than anything KC bred.The lads that own hybrid Deerhounds and graft them may be the only chance this breed will ever have of being salvaged from the KC scrapheap of ruined working breeds.I certainly agree that an awful lot of Collies are bred for the pet trade,yet its easy enough to source a working one,thats where the percentages swing massively in the Collies favour. Virtually all deerhounds are KC registered but that makes no difference to whether they are worked or not or how well they work. Pre-ban, a lot of the most successful show dogs also ran and did very well on the coursing field in regular organised coursing deerhound and deerhound / saluki meets and informally day to day on a range of quarry. These days in the UK we can't legally organise coursing meetings but many dogs who are shown continue to work live quarry. My own bitch has successful showdogs in her pedigree but the line she is from has also always extensively worked suitable live quarry. It is just a nonsense to think that show dogs and working dogs are something completely separate. Deary deary me show dogs and working dogs are miles apart but then again that all very much depends on your own standards and all my dogs have their fair amount of DH in them Edited November 2, 2016 by MIK 1 Quote Link to post
roybo 2,873 Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 In a LOT of breeds they are totally different . Look at most gun dogs collies gsds etc etc. Unless dogs have a purpose and are bred from to that ends working dogs suffer greatly from k.c. shows . You only have to look at a show type greyhound to see they are a different animal to a racing type,and racing type different to an older type coursing dog. The deerhound fairs no better. Form should follow function unfortunately with showing that isn't the case Generally I agree with you. Show breeding has ruined many breeds and created monsters along the way. If you are going to have breed standards for working breeds then those standards need to reflect an ideal working conformation and be adhered to. A lot of deerhounds now are bigger than they were historically and have a smaller colour range - but you can blame that on the writings of Sir Walter Scott who made grey the fashionable colour for these hounds. Fortunately a significant proportion of deerhound owners have always worked and continue to work their hounds and thanks to Mr Cassells and others the deerhound club organised coursing meets for members until coursing was banned and back in the 1950's before the law changed in Scotland, both deer and hares would be coursed at club meets. I don't think a breed standard can say what a perfect animal should look like ,as that as 9/10 tomes it's not what you can see that makes a great working dog ,it's what is in its head and heart ,nearest you can get I think,is outta g a photo up of a successful animal in its field ,and say something like this,and don't exaggerate it. The problem is when it says large ,long big very narrow ,wide etc.people take that to mean different to what it was initially meant. Quote Link to post
morton 5,367 Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 In a LOT of breeds they are totally different . Look at most gun dogs collies gsds etc etc. Unless dogs have a purpose and are bred from to that ends working dogs suffer greatly from k.c. shows . You only have to look at a show type greyhound to see they are a different animal to a racing type,and racing type different to an older type coursing dog. The deerhound fairs no better. Form should follow function unfortunately with showing that isn't the case Generally I agree with you. Show breeding has ruined many breeds and created monsters along the way. If you are going to have breed standards for working breeds then those standards need to reflect an ideal working conformation and be adhered to. A lot of deerhounds now are bigger than they were historically and have a smaller colour range - but you can blame that on the writings of Sir Walter Scott who made grey the fashionable colour for these hounds. Fortunately a significant proportion of deerhound owners have always worked and continue to work their hounds and thanks to Mr Cassells and others the deerhound club organised coursing meets for members until coursing was banned and back in the 1950's before the law changed in Scotland, both deer and hares would be coursed at club meets. I don't think a breed standard can say what a perfect animal should look like ,as that as 9/10 tomes it's not what you can see that makes a great working dog ,it's what is in its head and heart ,nearest you can get I think,is outta g a photo up of a successful animal in its field ,and say something like this,and don't exaggerate it. The problem is when it says large ,long big very narrow ,wide etc.people take that to mean different to what it was initially meant. The only thing that sets a worker above a ribbon licker is generations of honest working jukels behind the breeding,KC mutts are ALL generations removed from their working heritage. Quote Link to post
roybo 2,873 Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Yes I agree. just saying a breed standard can't say what a working dog should look like Quote Link to post
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