The Legend Ali

[DogFox123 1,379]

Joe Louis was a bit of a plodder, he might have tagged Ali and dropped him early on but Ali had amazing recuperative skills, he would run rings around Louis and stop him late IMO. Saying that if Joe Lois dropped Ali like Henry Copper did there's a good chance he gets the knockout as he was arguably the greatest finisher of all times.

 

Marciano was differnt, he wasn't no speedster but is defensive subtleties were underrated. Squatting low and coming underneath he wasn't easy to hit cleanly. Ali struggled with the only top class swarmer he faced in Frazier. Marciano wasn't quite as quick as Frazier but he had two fisted knockout power and was a machine, you could not stop him from coming forward such was his toughness, determination and stamina. I still favour Ali on points or cuts stoppage but who knows...

Edited July 5, 2016 by DogFox123

[AKA-BRINDLE 879]

Joe Louis was a bit of a plodder, he might have tagged Ali and dropped him early on but Ali had amazing recuperative skills, he would run rings around Louis and stop him late IMO. Saying that if Joe Lois dropped Ali like Henry Copper did there's a good chance he gets the knockout as he was arguably the greatest finisher of all times.

 

Marciano was differnt, he wasn't no speedster but is defensive subtleties were underrated. Squatting low and coming underneath he wasn't easy to hit cleanly. Ali struggled with the only top class swarmer he faced in Frazier. Marciano wasn't quite as quick as Frazier but he had two fisted knockout power and was a machine, you could not stop him from coming forward such was his toughness, determination and stamina. I still favour Ali on points or cuts stoppage but who knows...

Good post dogfox...100% agree in regards to Marciano...the best opinion on the subject is Angelo Dundee's...obviously Ali's trainer but also learned under Marciano's trainer Charley Goldman...Dundee talked alot about how Marciano was wrongly written off as crude and clumsy and how his defensive skills where under-rated...Rocky also had phenomenal punch resistance and stamina and as you said had two fisted power that was second to none he was also an obsessive fitness and training fanatic...the young Clay was a big fan of Ray Robinson...as he would of been in the position to watch up close both Clay and Louis i think his opinion would be valid...never get bored of repeating that quote of his that "if Cooper could knock Clay down Louis would knock him out!"...but like you say...who knows

[gnasher16 31,360]

Joe Louis was a bit of a plodder, he might have tagged Ali and dropped him early on but Ali had amazing recuperative skills, he would run rings around Louis and stop him late IMO. Saying that if Joe Lois dropped Ali like Henry Copper did there's a good chance he gets the knockout as he was arguably the greatest finisher of all times.

 

Marciano was differnt, he wasn't no speedster but is defensive subtleties were underrated. Squatting low and coming underneath he wasn't easy to hit cleanly. Ali struggled with the only top class swarmer he faced in Frazier. Marciano wasn't quite as quick as Frazier but he had two fisted knockout power and was a machine, you could not stop him from coming forward such was his toughness, determination and stamina. I still favour Ali on points or cuts stoppage but who knows...

Ive never really understood what reason there could have ever been to think Marciano would of troubled Ali every advantage both physical and mental a fighter could have Ali had over Marciano from 30 lb in weight to 5 or 6 inches height probably 10 inches reach,speed of hand and foot,movement......probably the only quality they really stack up close for is durability and punch resistance but would Marciano of got near him....personally i think Ali would of peppered him and forced a stoppage but everyone sees fights different.

[neems 2,406]

I agree with a lot of his opinions but it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of him outside the ring,the fact is very few people would ever say he isn't one of the top 3 best heavyweights ever and he'll go down in history as 'the greatest'.

 

He'll be a legend for the next 100 years imo.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

Joe Louis was a bit of a plodder, he might have tagged Ali and dropped him early on but Ali had amazing recuperative skills, he would run rings around Louis and stop him late IMO. Saying that if Joe Lois dropped Ali like Henry Copper did there's a good chance he gets the knockout as he was arguably the greatest finisher of all times.

 

Marciano was differnt, he wasn't no speedster but is defensive subtleties were underrated. Squatting low and coming underneath he wasn't easy to hit cleanly. Ali struggled with the only top class swarmer he faced in Frazier. Marciano wasn't quite as quick as Frazier but he had two fisted knockout power and was a machine, you could not stop him from coming forward such was his toughness, determination and stamina. I still favour Ali on points or cuts stoppage but who knows...

Ive never really understood what reason there could have ever been to think Marciano would of troubled Ali every advantage both physical and mental a fighter could have Ali had over Marciano from 30 lb in weight to 5 or 6 inches height probably 10 inches reach,speed of hand and foot,movement......probably the only quality they really stack up close for is durability and punch resistance but would Marciano of got near him....personally i think Ali would of peppered him and forced a stoppage but everyone sees fights different.

Ali mentioned that all of his punches hurt when they did those mock fights for the computer, he said all of his punches hurt including the ones to his arms. He goes on to say Marciano was a better fighter than Joe Frazier which is debate imo but admits Frazier gave him hell.

 

Ali would gain a big lead early on but Marciano was one of if not the fittest heavyweight champion of all time. Every punch he threw was damaging. Ali would eventually slow down and rest and that's where Marciano's ferocious intensity would come into play. I think it's fair to say it wouldn't be an easy night for either fighter.

[bird 10,014]

 

 

Joe Louis was a bit of a plodder, he might have tagged Ali and dropped him early on but Ali had amazing recuperative skills, he would run rings around Louis and stop him late IMO. Saying that if Joe Lois dropped Ali like Henry Copper did there's a good chance he gets the knockout as he was arguably the greatest finisher of all times.

 

Marciano was differnt, he wasn't no speedster but is defensive subtleties were underrated. Squatting low and coming underneath he wasn't easy to hit cleanly. Ali struggled with the only top class swarmer he faced in Frazier. Marciano wasn't quite as quick as Frazier but he had two fisted knockout power and was a machine, you could not stop him from coming forward such was his toughness, determination and stamina. I still favour Ali on points or cuts stoppage but who knows...

Ive never really understood what reason there could have ever been to think Marciano would of troubled Ali every advantage both physical and mental a fighter could have Ali had over Marciano from 30 lb in weight to 5 or 6 inches height probably 10 inches reach,speed of hand and foot,movement......probably the only quality they really stack up close for is durability and punch resistance but would Marciano of got near him....personally i think Ali would of peppered him and forced a stoppage but everyone sees fights different.

Ali mentioned that all of his punches hurt when they did those mock fights for the computer, he said all of his punches hurt including the ones to his arms. He goes on to say Marciano was a better fighter than Joe Frazier which is debate imo but admits Frazier gave him hell.

 

Ali would gain a big lead early on but Marciano was one of if not the fittest heavyweight champion of all time. Every punch he threw was damaging. Ali would eventually slow down and rest and that's where Marciano's ferocious intensity would come into play. I think it's fair to say it wouldn't be an easy night for either fighter.

 

was marciano same size as cooper 13 st 7lb in the ring, if so thats very light or heavyweight , even haye fights 6ft 2in 15-16st and people think haye small for a heavyweight with todays heavies .?

[darbo 4,779]

A lot of the old time heavyweight fighters would be cruiserweights today. Marciano listed as 13st 3 jack dempsey 13st 13 for example. Todays heavyweights are giants in comparison.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

 

Joe Louis was a bit of a plodder, he might have tagged Ali and dropped him early on but Ali had amazing recuperative skills, he would run rings around Louis and stop him late IMO. Saying that if Joe Lois dropped Ali like Henry Copper did there's a good chance he gets the knockout as he was arguably the greatest finisher of all times.

 

Marciano was differnt, he wasn't no speedster but is defensive subtleties were underrated. Squatting low and coming underneath he wasn't easy to hit cleanly. Ali struggled with the only top class swarmer he faced in Frazier. Marciano wasn't quite as quick as Frazier but he had two fisted knockout power and was a machine, you could not stop him from coming forward such was his toughness, determination and stamina. I still favour Ali on points or cuts stoppage but who knows...

Ive never really understood what reason there could have ever been to think Marciano would of troubled Ali every advantage both physical and mental a fighter could have Ali had over Marciano from 30 lb in weight to 5 or 6 inches height probably 10 inches reach,speed of hand and foot,movement......probably the only quality they really stack up close for is durability and punch resistance but would Marciano of got near him....personally i think Ali would of peppered him and forced a stoppage but everyone sees fights different.

Ali mentioned that all of his punches hurt when they did those mock fights for the computer, he said all of his punches hurt including the ones to his arms. He goes on to say Marciano was a better fighter than Joe Frazier which is debate imo but admits Frazier gave him hell.

 

Ali would gain a big lead early on but Marciano was one of if not the fittest heavyweight champion of all time. Every punch he threw was damaging. Ali would eventually slow down and rest and that's where Marciano's ferocious intensity would come into play. I think it's fair to say it wouldn't be an easy night for either fighter.

was marciano same size as cooper 13 st 7lb in the ring, if so thats very light or heavyweight , even haye fights 6ft 2in 15-16st and people think haye small for a heavyweight with todays heavies .?

It doesn't matter, he hit tremendously hard. He put all of his body into each and every shot. Cooper had Ali on queer street and he wasn't a big man. If you get hit right you get hurt, size doesn't always mean punching power.

[darbo 4,779]

A quote by mike tyson i read the other day. Him at his peak and ali at his peak who wins? tysons says without doubt ali he takes fighters into deep waters and drowns them. A special fighter.

[darbo 4,779]

i dont dispute marcianos punching power a fighter i have a lot of respect for. But did he have the same punching power as a earnie shavers or george foreman

[AKA-BRINDLE 879]

A lot of the old time heavyweight fighters would be cruiserweights today. Marciano listed as 13st 3 jack dempsey 13st 13 for example. Todays heavyweights are giants in comparison.

Thats true darbo...but in regards to Ali, Marciano wernt that much smaller than Frazier..Ali, Louis and Marciano all beat the best of their era...you really cant ask anymore than that can you...i dont think its beyond the realms of reason to say he would of held his own with Ali and possibly beat him...as i said who knows...or as Angelo Dundee said "you dont try to say, well so and so could of beat so and so. that's bullshit"

[AKA-BRINDLE 879]

i dont dispute marcianos punching power a fighter i have a lot of respect for. But did he have the same punching power as a earnie shavers or george foreman

Shavers may of punched hard...but he got out punched and stopped by Jerry Quarry

[bird 10,014]

i dont dispute marcianos punching power a fighter i have a lot of respect for. But did he have the same punching power as a earnie shavers or george foreman

n ow your talking shavers had hell of a punch on him, he bust ali jaw in there fight, and ali as always said he was the hardest puncher he ever faced . some men are just naturally strong punchers at what weight they are, when idone bit of boxing and karate , i could knock down blokes good couple stone heavier than me easy, but as they say good strong big'un , will always beat a good strong little'un deff .

[darbo 4,779]

 

i dont dispute marcianos punching power a fighter i have a lot of respect for. But did he have the same punching power as a earnie shavers or george foreman

Shavers may of punched hard...but he got out punched and stopped by Jerry Quarry

 

True AKA Shavers was stopped a few times maybe a chink in his armoury. He had a fair old fight with ali and landed plenty of punches which ali took. As you say its good to talk about boxing although we can only surmise what would have happened between these fighters of different eras.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

i dont dispute marcianos punching power a fighter i have a lot of respect for. But did he have the same punching power as a earnie shavers or george foreman

n ow your talking shavers had hell of a punch on him, he bust ali jaw in there fight, and ali as always said he was the hardest puncher he ever faced . some men are just naturally strong punchers at what weight they are, when idone bit of boxing and karate , i could knock down blokes good couple stone heavier than me easy, but as they say good strong big'un , will always beat a good strong little'un deff .

It was Norton who broke Ali's jaw although Shavers had him badly hurt at one point. This was an Ali who should have been long retired. Marciano had the power when it counted, Shavers always fell short.