Yes/no

[brenner 773]

All joking aside, it's great to read a topic where people are genuinely trying to educate, without lowering themselves to the usuall bullshit of slagging off others that don't see their point of view... Intelligence, experience and humility. Very hard to carry all 3 characteristics and God knows I'm not talking bout myself. Great thread

[ginger beard 4,652]

 

 

 

Bloody good write up by jeemes. Helped me get my head round it a bit better ,but why and when do things go wrong.I am thinking of plumbers line of lurchers. Thought you needed to outcross to refresh the gene pool.

Cheers

I think all families will need to outcross at some point,and that is where danger lies. When you have spent years purifying or narrowing your gene pool it is impossible to have your eye on everything and some things are unseen. You can inbreed to do good or bad. You are engineering nature and all inbreeding is doing for you is vastly speeding up natural selection. The responsibility for the right selection lies with you. When you outcross you allow in thousands of genes,some of which can undo all the good work you have done.If possible an out and out outcross should be avoided and distantly related dog to your existing family used.The offspring watched carefully for incoming faults and bred back into your strain.

Any faults with dogs are corrected best with inbreeding even if those faults were caused by poor inbreeding,and lets be clear we are talking about in and in breeding,not line breeding which is complicated type of outcrossing.

Only dogs die,the germ cell or gene pool is imortal and lives on as long as the dog reproduces,thats why when people on here are talking about breeding good dogs together they are missing the point,that they are not breeding simply from those two parents but from the germ cell or genes that they carry.

The main point to remember is to forget systems or anything like that.You can only judge an individual on what it shows.

 

sorry mate just something i picked up on.ANY FAULTS WITH DOGS ARE CORRECTED BEST WITH INBREEDING EVEN IF THOSE FAULTS WERE CAUSED BY POOR INBREEDING.that's not a trait i want to lock in thanks.

 

What trait dont you want to lock in?

 

any dog with a fault i caused by inbreeding wouldn't breed from especially by more inbreeding bacause that will lock in those faults.seem a odd sentance to me.

[jeemes 3,632]

 

 

 

 

Bloody good write up by jeemes. Helped me get my head round it a bit better ,but why and when do things go wrong.I am thinking of plumbers line of lurchers. Thought you needed to outcross to refresh the gene pool.

Cheers

I think all families will need to outcross at some point,and that is where danger lies. When you have spent years purifying or narrowing your gene pool it is impossible to have your eye on everything and some things are unseen. You can inbreed to do good or bad. You are engineering nature and all inbreeding is doing for you is vastly speeding up natural selection. The responsibility for the right selection lies with you. When you outcross you allow in thousands of genes,some of which can undo all the good work you have done.If possible an out and out outcross should be avoided and distantly related dog to your existing family used.The offspring watched carefully for incoming faults and bred back into your strain.

Any faults with dogs are corrected best with inbreeding even if those faults were caused by poor inbreeding,and lets be clear we are talking about in and in breeding,not line breeding which is complicated type of outcrossing.

Only dogs die,the germ cell or gene pool is imortal and lives on as long as the dog reproduces,thats why when people on here are talking about breeding good dogs together they are missing the point,that they are not breeding simply from those two parents but from the germ cell or genes that they carry.

The main point to remember is to forget systems or anything like that.You can only judge an individual on what it shows.

 

sorry mate just something i picked up on.ANY FAULTS WITH DOGS ARE CORRECTED BEST WITH INBREEDING EVEN IF THOSE FAULTS WERE CAUSED BY POOR INBREEDING.that's not a trait i want to lock in thanks.

 

What trait dont you want to lock in?

 

any dog with a fault i caused by inbreeding wouldn't breed from especially by more inbreeding bacause that will lock in those faults.seem a odd sentance to me.

 

You have mis quoted there,I said "poor" inbreeding.When you mate two dogs you are bringing thousands of genes into play. By inbreeding and culling the faults you are simplifying the genes or gene groups. Its unlikely that you wont make mistakes along the way but if you set out on something you should stick with if you want to see the best results in the end. If you have accidentally brought about or reinforced a fault by doubling it up,only a programme of further inbreeding can put it right even if an outcross is felt necessary it will take further careful inbreeding to reverse from pure recessive to pure dominant.

 

If inbreeding had never been practiced you would not have the Greyhound and whatever other breeds you have in your lurchers. Like said its just a way of bending nature,if we hadnt done that we would not have any domesticated animals,but selection is the key.

If you are really keen you should look up Gregor Mendel,and later Robert Bakewell who improved our agricultral livestock by inbreeding.

[hollands hope 1,017]

 

 

 

 

 

Bloody good write up by jeemes. Helped me get my head round it a bit better ,but why and when do things go wrong.I am thinking of plumbers line of lurchers. Thought you needed to outcross to refresh the gene pool.

Cheers

I think all families will need to outcross at some point,and that is where danger lies. When you have spent years purifying or narrowing your gene pool it is impossible to have your eye on everything and some things are unseen. You can inbreed to do good or bad. You are engineering nature and all inbreeding is doing for you is vastly speeding up natural selection. The responsibility for the right selection lies with you. When you outcross you allow in thousands of genes,some of which can undo all the good work you have done.If possible an out and out outcross should be avoided and distantly related dog to your existing family used.The offspring watched carefully for incoming faults and bred back into your strain.

Any faults with dogs are corrected best with inbreeding even if those faults were caused by poor inbreeding,and lets be clear we are talking about in and in breeding,not line breeding which is complicated type of outcrossing.

Only dogs die,the germ cell or gene pool is imortal and lives on as long as the dog reproduces,thats why when people on here are talking about breeding good dogs together they are missing the point,that they are not breeding simply from those two parents but from the germ cell or genes that they carry.

The main point to remember is to forget systems or anything like that.You can only judge an individual on what it shows.

 

sorry mate just something i picked up on.ANY FAULTS WITH DOGS ARE CORRECTED BEST WITH INBREEDING EVEN IF THOSE FAULTS WERE CAUSED BY POOR INBREEDING.that's not a trait i want to lock in thanks.

 

What trait dont you want to lock in?

 

any dog with a fault i caused by inbreeding wouldn't breed from especially by more inbreeding bacause that will lock in those faults.seem a odd sentance to me.

 

You have mis quoted there,I said "poor" inbreeding.When you mate two dogs you are bringing thousands of genes into play. By inbreeding and culling the faults you are simplifying the genes or gene groups. Its unlikely that you wont make mistakes along the way but if you set out on something you should stick with if you want to see the best results in the end. If you have accidentally brought about or reinforced a fault by doubling it up,only a programme of further inbreeding can put it right even if an outcross is felt necessary it will take further careful inbreeding to reverse from pure recessive to pure dominant.

 

If inbreeding had never been practiced you would not have the Greyhound and whatever other breeds you have in your lurchers. Like said its just a way of bending nature,if we hadnt done that we would not have any domesticated animals,but selection is the key.

If you are really keen you should look up Gregor Mendel,and later Robert Bakewell who improved our agricultral livestock by inbreeding.

 

Good post mate , I think in the end it all comes down to dedication and common sense .

[ginger beard 4,652]

some of mine are identical,but it doesnt follow they will have exactly the same working traits because they look the same.

what about this then,you admit they all look the same but with different working traits.line bred pups shouldn't just look the same but behave the same with the same working qualitys surely thats the whole point.excuse me if i'm being thick

[Phil Lloyd 10,736]

Valid point there fellah....

 

When I used to keep a better class of running dog,...I always tried to 'keep it in the family',.so to speak...

In fact, I am still walking a similar path today, albeit just using my own pet/worker , cur bred jukels...

 

I have always felt, that once you have near enough what you need in a breed,...why rock the boat,...stick to what you know and try to maintain those particular working/hunting qualities, that serve you well,...

 

Facts are, some guys are optimistic triers,.they try this, they try that....

 

The end result often results in them going round and round in circles, and finaly dissapearing up their own arses....

 

It ain't hard to get caught out in that trap,....been there, done it,....many times...

[Somewhereyournot 1,117]

Valid point there fellah....

 

When I used to keep a better class of running dog,...I always tried to 'keep it in the family',.so to speak...

In fact, I am still walking a similar path today, albeit just using my own pet/worker , cur bred jukels...

 

I have always felt, that once you have near enough what you need in a breed,...why rock the boat,...stick to what you know and try to maintain those particular working/hunting qualities, that serve you well,...

 

Facts are, some guys are optimistic triers,.they try this, they try that....

 

The end result often results in them going round and round in circles, and finaly dissapearing up their own arses....

 

It ain't hard to get caught out in that trap,....been there, done it,....many times...

abit off topic, but if the ban was lifted today and you wanted a dog to be as close to a good all rounder as possible, what x would you start with. Not on about 60 rabbits a night , or 3/3 hare dogs. Something that would be good at abit of everything.

[jeemes 3,632]

 

some of mine are identical,but it doesnt follow they will have exactly the same working traits because they look the same.

what about this then,you admit they all look the same but with different working traits.line bred pups shouldn't just look the same but behave the same with the same working qualitys surely thats the whole point.excuse me if i'm being thick

 

"You admit" hang on a minute please,Im not on trial here. Im making a contribution to a thread with some things ive learned over years. Im not very clever so its took me a long time to understand things,but I do understand what Ive said,but if you havnt understood it thats fine I can put it another way.

I use my dogs as an example but my point is that when you inbreed you are looking for qualities that you want. Dont assume that a dog that looks like his dad is necessarily going to be a clone of his sire.You may want a clone of the sire in which case you will breed that way or you may want to retain some of the traits of the dam. As generations are bred the strain will inevitably become similar in most ways and traits and thats really the point of creating a strain. To avoid as Phil puts it becoming an "optimistic trier".

[ginger beard 4,652]

not a clue what your on about.i'm out