Just Because I Can Should I ?

[shropshire dan 467]

I've literally only just started using a mod on mine and without it I'd say it's as loud as a 12g going off.

[Alsone 789]

 

I think people read to much into ballistics charts and believe because one calibre shoots marginally flatter to 250m, its better... But ballistics charts don't give you the feel of recoil, the decibel reading or the cost of more powder....

 

One thing I can say for a sure is you wont shoot any more foxes, or any foxes at longer distances with either the 250 or the swift! You will just make a louder bang doing it!!

 

I always chuckle when I see recoil given as a reason for not buying a more powerful .224 calibre.

 

For god's sake a .22-250 it's a 55gr bullet driven by around 35gr of powder.

 

A 12g shotgun drives 493gr of lead (32 grams) by around 25gr of powder producing noticeabley more kick and yet an average pigeon shooter or clay pigeon shooter will think nothing of firing -100 rounds, or more, in a morning (2-3hour period) compared to rifle shooters who may fire 2 or 3 rounds in a day!! I mean come on, recoil really?

 

Noise is one thing, I can fully understand that some shooters may prefer more stealth, (with proper ear defence no reason to worry about noise otherwise), but I don't see the argument for recoil with a .224 unless your of very slight build, elderly or very young, or firing much bigger calibre - it takes around a .375 H&H Magnum to reach shotgun recoil levels.

 

If you look at recoil tables on Chuckhawks, (as it's the only way of doing it over the internet), then you find a recoil in ft lbs of 4.2 (4 point 2) for a .22-250 compared to 32 ft lbs for a 12g shotgun with a 32gr load. (.223 is 3.2ft lbs for comparison).

 

Hopefully that puts things in perspective!

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

 

I admit less recoil = more seen down the scope after firing, but that's not the be all and end all.

 

Personally, as I'm a great believer in being humane, I'd rather choose a more powerful calibre knowing it has the extra shocking power to kill if my aim is slighty off, than shoot with something quieter and risk a wounding from a bad shot. Yep you shouldn't make bad shots, but they're inevitable at some point aren't they and I guess that's also why .22-250 and .243 are popular fox rounds. It's personal preference at the end of the day and what floats your boat, stealth or killing power.

[charlie caller 3,654]

A moderator cuts down the recoil anyway, but totally agree with Alsone here, .22cf recoil is not an issue, unless you were so slight/frail that you probably could not lift the damn thing to your shoulder, if the op wants a rifle to shoot foxes and the odd long range bunny(for whatever reason) any of the .22 cf will do a great job, and of course can be used to shoot Muntjac and Chinese water deer, in England and Wales, and Roe in Scotland, it really does not make a jot of difference to the fox stood 200 yards away, what you hit it with, a good expanding .224 bullet at high velocity will flatten it

[Born Hunter 17,656]

I find recoil a significant factor in assessing the shot. With a low recoil rifle/round you can watch the critters response to the strike and be able to make a good judgement as to the result. A heavier recoil can cause you to loose the sight picture completely, leaving your immediate judgement based entirely on a second unaided set of eyes and/or the perceived sound of impact (which can be horribly misleading at times). Anybody that has done a bit will know it's not always practical or sensible to then go hunting around for said critter on a "maybe I got it..." when had you not lost the sight picture you would have seen the little b*****d run for the thorns 50 yards to it's left completely untouched.

 

All things being equal, I'd take less recoil for this reason. But there's surely more important factors in rifle/cal choice.

[DeerhoundLurcherMan 997]

Alsone I think they are both great calibres and you are right it is personal preference, having shot a .223 and a .220 swift all winter long I can say that IMO it makes no difference as to where you hit a fox, you either hit it right or not, they are the same bullet and a couple hundred fps faster doesnt make a difference if you hit it slightly wrong..Its going to run..

 

99% of the 128 foxes we shot this winter was sub 250m (lamping) and I can point and shoot to that distance with my .223, it's nice and quiet, more efficient, see them go down easier and more than enough stopping power...Anything past 250m I'm sure the .22/250 shines with its flatter trajectory...but that's it IMO..

 

So personally for what we do the .223 is better 99% of the time...

[Bigad 136]

So I should look at .223 then as I am in West Yorkshire constabulary and they see this as a fox caliber ?

[shropshire dan 467]

I got a lovely .22-250 for sale. Full setup except scope

Edited July 7, 2015 by shropshire dan

[Hydropotesinermis 724]

Personally I would apply for the calibre YOU want. Not what you think the police will grant.

 

As long as you can display good reason they shouldn't quibble.

 

That said you can put your application in and when it comes to your chat with the firearms officer you can always barter and end up with a .223 if that makes them more happy and gets you a rifle.

[walshie 2,804]

If I was in your position I'd get a 22 rf for bunnies and a 22 centrefire for fox. If you can only stretch to one calibre, then a 22 hornet is kind of middle ground.

[Alsone 789]

So I should look at .223 then as I am in West Yorkshire constabulary and they see this as a fox caliber ?

 

There is no "correct" calibre provided it's listed in the guidelines for fox which everything from .22 Hornet to .243 is.

 

Personally, I'd still take a .22-250 over a .223. The terminal destruction is much greater. I disagree with the opinion that it makes no difference. A wider hydrostatic shock track, even if only a fwe millimeters can make the difference between hitting a vital organ / blood vessel or imparting enough shock to those to cause a brain shut down and not if the shot is slightly off perfect aim.

 

Yep there are arguments for and against .22-250, as there are for .223, 222, .243, .204 etc etc. It's Personal Choice!

 

My advice is go for what you want, having heard all the arguments for and against. If .22-250 was no good, it wouldn't be so popular. Same with .223.

 

You could ask the same question of what's the best fox calibre all day and all night on every forum, and I bet you get every answer listed above!

 

The only way to choose is to find the best calibre for you, be that the most powerful, the quietist, the cheapest, the flattest etc. Do your research and stick to calibres approved for fox in the guidelines (google Police Firearms Guidelines) and you'll soon turn up the document and calibre tables, and you won't go far wrong....and if quiet is your thing then buy quiet. Personally, I'd rather have a blast and feel happy knowing whatever i'm shooting at is going to die.

 

If I were to choose a fox calibre it would be .22-250 or .243. Now there's a can of worms!

[charlie caller 3,654]

So I should look at .223 then as I am in West Yorkshire constabulary and they see this as a fox caliber ?

No you should get the .222 it is a superior cartridge, one of the most accurate out there.

[DeerhoundLurcherMan 997]

CC, I'm interested in what makes folk say the .222 is more accurate? Not all .222s will be more accurate than all other .22 centrefires?

 

If I bought a .222 and a .223 in the same outfit, is the .222 guaranteed to be more accurate with say 50grn Vmaxs?

 

What makes a calibre more accurate than another? Surely it is down to each individual rifle, setup and load?

 

Genuine questions...I'm here to learn!

[slipper 116]

how much more accurate is the 222 compared to the 223? is it worth swapping?

i have a bit of a ocd with shooting i like little tight groups and hate a flyer lol

[Bigad 136]

Well went to get the paper work signed up last night and farmer drove us round land pointing out the boundaries 2nd field in 5 deer running round he said if you can get them you can have them as long as you get them f#cking rabbits

[Hydropotesinermis 724]

Awesome! In that case I'd apply for a .375 H&H mag. That should have enough stopping power for those pesky foxes.