Sealyham

[Rabbit Hunter 6,608]

Don't think G Layton has terriers anymore, he's my mother's godfather and used to dig with my Grandad 'back in the day'.

[andy26 618]

Big 'Geoff' Layton and Morris Richardson did keep,breed and work the Sealyham X Russells up in the North East of the country. My brother and myself knew them well when my brother was terrier man, Kennel man at the South Durham fox hounds in 1990. Great times! Don't think Geoff has any terriers nowadays but Morris would be a good try.

Best regards.

Lutra Lutra....

Morris packet the dogs in 7 year back when his missus sadly passed away

[Bosun11 537]

 

Big 'Geoff' Layton and Morris Richardson did keep,breed and work the Sealyham X Russells up in the North East of the country. My brother and myself knew them well when my brother was terrier man, Kennel man at the South Durham fox hounds in 1990. Great times! Don't think Geoff has any terriers nowadays but Morris would be a good try.

Best regards.

Lutra Lutra....

Morris packet the dogs in 7 year back when his missus sadly passed away

Still involved with his local club though?

[p3d 879]

Skip1234,

 

Take a look at these pages before you pay crazy money for a Sealyham TYPE terrier.

There appears to be a lot of mis-information put out there about this strain, even by sporting magazines that should know better.

 

 

Go to this link and scroll down to the update shown above.

You can download the complete "Field" article and form your own opinion.

 

http://iwtf.ie

 

Read the Almost complete history of the working Sealyham here.

http://iwtf.ie/?page_id=2273

 

If anyone has information or photographs that they could add to this history please post them.

The true history will only improve if genuine terriermen write it.

[andy26 618]

 

 

Big 'Geoff' Layton and Morris Richardson did keep,breed and work the Sealyham X Russells up in the North East of the country. My brother and myself knew them well when my brother was terrier man, Kennel man at the South Durham fox hounds in 1990. Great times! Don't think Geoff has any terriers nowadays but Morris would be a good try.

Best regards.

Lutra Lutra....

Morris packet the dogs in 7 year back when his missus sadly passed away

Still involved with his local club though?

yeah I'm a member of the club an no Morris well he was say last week at the club show this is his last year as he's got no interest in it any more so he's going to ask a couple of members if they want they wanted to fill his boots

[Bosun11 537]

I'd imagine they are pretty big boots to fill..

[eastcoast 3,729]

Skip1234,

 

Take a look at these pages before you pay crazy money for a Sealyham TYPE terrier.

There appears to be a lot of mis-information put out there about this strain, even by sporting magazines that should know better.

 

The Field Article 01.jpg

 

Go to this link and scroll down to the update shown above.

You can download the complete "Field" article and form your own opinion.

 

http://iwtf.ie

 

Read the Almost complete history of the working Sealyham here.

http://iwtf.ie/?page_id=2273

 

If anyone has information or photographs that they could add to this history please post them.

The true history will only improve if genuine terriermen write it.

Thanks for sharing the link to " Almost..." p3d. I found my way to this Irish working terrier club once via JRTCB web site and discovered Rawden Lees' Fox Terrier free to download. Both volumes. Books I had dreamed of owning when a kid and never got around to buying when they were reprinted. I particularly liked the stamp on one of the 1st pages, " this is the property of the New York Library " or something similar. I imagine a story on it's own to tell ?

 

The write up on the Sealyham on your shared link is really interesting. The most fascinating being that one of the most influential or at least well known working Sealyham types in recent times carried white Lakeland blood ? A person who is involved with the development of the sporting Lucas terrier recently introduced white Lakeland blood into his lines. The Lakeland line being from the late Mr. Middleton's strain ( R.I.P. we stand on their shoulders ). Judging from the pictures I have seen of the resulting dogs they do resemble the old type working Sealyham terrier.

 

It is well documented that the K.C. registered Parson Russell Terrier has white Lakeland influence . Kenterfox Flint being an honest one entering the registry, being a pure bred Middleton Lakeland but white. The people who sanctioned this, people who regarded the " purity " and preserve of the old Fox terrier of such importance the it needed to be registered with the K.C. realised that an apparently distant type carried important genetic material.

 

The importance to the K.C. Parsons' apparently came from Illfracome Badger Digging club Fox Terriers from way back in the lines of modern working Lakeland. But did not Mr. Breay amongst others take Sealyhams to the Lakes and are they in the genetic make up of the modern working Lakeland Terrier ? The working Lakeland played a big part in recreating the old type Fox Terrier ( nothing to do with a proper Russell that never went away ), maybe it can also play a part in bringing back the old type Sealyham Terrier ? Only in appearance of course.

[pablo esc 1,598]

,, Fair play to any one who has worked and kept a sealyman terrier, as going to the old days. The was some recollections on this at one time with the digging outings in England, early century i think. Long time later Men crossing dogs out for spruced up looks, white lakeland, tall russells

[andy26 618]

I'd imagine they are pretty big boots to fill..

there is one or two members that could step in but the club has been going for 46 years now an Morris us one of the main people so you are right big boots to fill if no one wants to step in the club might fold..I hope it doesn't

[Bosun11 537]

 

I'd imagine they are pretty big boots to fill..

there is one or two members that could step in but the club has been going for 46 years now an Morris us one of the main people so you are right big boots to fill if no one wants to step in the club might fold..I hope it doesn't

Then i hope you find the right person(s) then Andy. Your club, like ours, has always represented at the NWTF meetings. I remember Morris there 20+ years ago and he was there last month. Shame he has no heart in it now.

[p3d 879]

 

Skip1234,

 

Take a look at these pages before you pay crazy money for a Sealyham TYPE terrier.

There appears to be a lot of mis-information put out there about this strain, even by sporting magazines that should know better.

 

The Field Article 01.jpg

 

Go to this link and scroll down to the update shown above.

You can download the complete "Field" article and form your own opinion.

 

http://iwtf.ie

 

Read the Almost complete history of the working Sealyham here.

http://iwtf.ie/?page_id=2273

 

If anyone has information or photographs that they could add to this history please post them.

The true history will only improve if genuine terriermen write it.

Thanks for sharing the link to " Almost..." p3d. I found my way to this Irish working terrier club once via JRTCB web site and discovered Rawden Lees' Fox Terrier free to download. Both volumes. Books I had dreamed of owning when a kid and never got around to buying when they were reprinted. I particularly liked the stamp on one of the 1st pages, " this is the property of the New York Library " or something similar. I imagine a story on it's own to tell ?

 

The write up on the Sealyham on your shared link is really interesting. The most fascinating being that one of the most influential or at least well known working Sealyham types in recent times carried white Lakeland blood ? A person who is involved with the development of the sporting Lucas terrier recently introduced white Lakeland blood into his lines. The Lakeland line being from the late Mr. Middleton's strain ( R.I.P. we stand on their shoulders ). Judging from the pictures I have seen of the resulting dogs they do resemble the old type working Sealyham terrier.

 

It is well documented that the K.C. registered Parson Russell Terrier has white Lakeland influence . Kenterfox Flint being an honest one entering the registry, being a pure bred Middleton Lakeland but white. The people who sanctioned this, people who regarded the " purity " and preserve of the old Fox terrier of such importance the it needed to be registered with the K.C. realised that an apparently distant type carried important genetic material.

 

The importance to the K.C. Parsons' apparently came from Illfracome Badger Digging club Fox Terriers from way back in the lines of modern working Lakeland. But did not Mr. Breay amongst others take Sealyhams to the Lakes and are they in the genetic make up of the modern working Lakeland Terrier ? The working Lakeland played a big part in recreating the old type Fox Terrier ( nothing to do with a proper Russell that never went away ), maybe it can also play a part in bringing back the old type Sealyham Terrier ? Only in appearance of course.

 

 

Eastcoast,

 

If the reports from that era are true this lady had a big part to play in forming the shape of the terriers we have today.

 

The Duchess of Newcastle

 

As long as the parson Russell KC breeders are trying to achieve this shape, the breed is screwed.

(it was a non starter anyway IMO)

 

Take a look at the show photographs in "Countrymans weekly" any week over the summer.

The terriers are starting to look exactly like the shape of the terrier in the photo with the Duchess.

 

Black, White, Red they are all the same. Boxy profile, straight front, short back, brick shaped head.

 

The Sealyham type terrier looks coarse in comparison, thankfully they will stay that way.

[dixiefried 269]

The Days of a Proper Digging Sealyham are well Numbered,if there ever was a day of a SINGLED handed dog,it's well gone...

Great for bushing and general Ratching around ideal for a Youngster tho,or even an Elderly gentleman

[Corkman 944]

Sealyham X Russells (old type white dogs) are still about.

 

Like all the other strains of terrier. You just have to know where to look for the right ones. But do not waste your money on K.C. rubbish. You would be better off giving your money to charity (not the RSPCA though).

 

Imagine this. Well bred working stock are still free in some parts of the world to genuine people and for the most part always have been.

 

Any Dog from a closed registration system (Kennel Club) is on a hiding to nothing in the long term where work and function is second to looks and form.

 

Plenty of strains have been "kept tight but bred right" for many years and when needs be a suitable outcross carefully sought.

 

I can never understand the purest border terrier people. Not knocking here. But if you are in to "working terriers" and have a handy enough border which are supposidly as rare as hens teeth, then why wouldnt a terrierman add some "working" red fell or old type B&T lakie into the mix, then keep back the bordery looking ones (that eventually or hopefully work) and breed back into the K.C. border. Thus opening up the closed K.C. system to fresh and proven working bloodstock. I would prefer a working border "type" than a plug and nice K.C. looking border. That goes for any strain for me as the ones I keep are not pedigree chums.

 

 

 

[andy26 618]

 

 

I'd imagine they are pretty big boots to fill..

there is one or two members that could step in but the club has been going for 46 years now an Morris us one of the main people so you are right big boots to fill if no one wants to step in the club might fold..I hope it doesn't

Then i hope you find the right person(s) then Andy. Your club, like ours, has always represented at the NWTF meetings. I remember Morris there 20+ years ago and he was there last month. Shame he has no heart in it now.

yeah I no..I no Morris is going to the nwtf meeting next year but he says it will be the last time such a shame

[eastcoast 3,729]

 

 

Skip1234,

 

Take a look at these pages before you pay crazy money for a Sealyham TYPE terrier.

There appears to be a lot of mis-information put out there about this strain, even by sporting magazines that should know better.

 

The Field Article 01.jpg

 

Go to this link and scroll down to the update shown above.

You can download the complete "Field" article and form your own opinion.

 

http://iwtf.ie

 

Read the Almost complete history of the working Sealyham here.

http://iwtf.ie/?page_id=2273

 

If anyone has information or photographs that they could add to this history please post them.

The true history will only improve if genuine terriermen write it.

Thanks for sharing the link to " Almost..." p3d. I found my way to this Irish working terrier club once via JRTCB web site and discovered Rawden Lees' Fox Terrier free to download. Both volumes. Books I had dreamed of owning when a kid and never got around to buying when they were reprinted. I particularly liked the stamp on one of the 1st pages, " this is the property of the New York Library " or something similar. I imagine a story on it's own to tell ?

 

The write up on the Sealyham on your shared link is really interesting. The most fascinating being that one of the most influential or at least well known working Sealyham types in recent times carried white Lakeland blood ? A person who is involved with the development of the sporting Lucas terrier recently introduced white Lakeland blood into his lines. The Lakeland line being from the late Mr. Middleton's strain ( R.I.P. we stand on their shoulders ). Judging from the pictures I have seen of the resulting dogs they do resemble the old type working Sealyham terrier.

 

It is well documented that the K.C. registered Parson Russell Terrier has white Lakeland influence . Kenterfox Flint being an honest one entering the registry, being a pure bred Middleton Lakeland but white. The people who sanctioned this, people who regarded the " purity " and preserve of the old Fox terrier of such importance the it needed to be registered with the K.C. realised that an apparently distant type carried important genetic material.

 

The importance to the K.C. Parsons' apparently came from Illfracome Badger Digging club Fox Terriers from way back in the lines of modern working Lakeland. But did not Mr. Breay amongst others take Sealyhams to the Lakes and are they in the genetic make up of the modern working Lakeland Terrier ? The working Lakeland played a big part in recreating the old type Fox Terrier ( nothing to do with a proper Russell that never went away ), maybe it can also play a part in bringing back the old type Sealyham Terrier ? Only in appearance of course.

 

 

Eastcoast,

 

If the reports from that era are true this lady had a big part to play in forming the shape of the terriers we have today.

 

Her_Grace_The_Duchess_of_Newcastle.jpg

The Duchess of Newcastle

 

As long as the parson Russell KC breeders are trying to achieve this shape, the breed is screwed.

(it was a non starter anyway IMO)

 

Take a look at the show photographs in "Countrymans weekly" any week over the summer.

The terriers are starting to look exactly like the shape of the terrier in the photo with the Duchess.

 

Black, White, Red they are all the same. Boxy profile, straight front, short back, brick shaped head.

 

The Sealyham type terrier looks coarse in comparison, thankfully they will stay that way.

 

I can't see anything wrong with the shape of that terrier, the only thing for scale is a Victorian or Edwardian lady so he may be a bit on the large side but that's it Was he game or had a strong prey drive to use the modern term ? Can't judge from the photograph of course but I would take a punt if were still alive. I'm a Geordie but my family didn't move in the same circles as the Duchess of Newcastle and the other half of the family are Irish so where as we may of dug in their pits or navigated their canals they never gifted us their dogs.

 

I do get your point though. The type of terrier in the photograph was the beginning of the end, or rather the start of terriers being bred to badly drafted breed standards rather as practical hunting dogs. And for cash of course. My point though was that the white coloured Lakelands may owe as much to early late 19th/early 20th century Sealyham as to Fox terrier or later Russell blood.