Greyhound Bitch

[trenchfoot 4,243]

Speed kills, and not just quarry. I've seen one or two greys do the work of a lurcher. Most made a decent job of it, but much depended on where they were worked. What they didn't do is last season after season.

 

I just dont see why when we have well proven longdogs that have far more to bring to the table than "just" pace, why you would add a pure greyhound to any proven lurcher.

[rickymc1 42]

?

Edited May 5, 2015 by rickymc1

[rickymc1 42]

Everybody til there own brother worked a coursing greyhound bitch for a right few seasons day and night with no problems with joints feet etc are stamina an could turn aswel as alot of lurchers.. And took any game that was asked of her.. She was lined with a half x bull grey to half x bull grey dog 27ins to the shoulder.. Way I see it to dogs proved there self out in the field with no doubts not to breed them cant see why there is an issue with the pure grey when you have a good one its a good one..!!

Edited May 5, 2015 by rickymc1

[trenchfoot 4,243]

Everybody til there own brother worked a coursing greyhound bitch for a right few seasons day and night with no problems with joints feet etc are stamina an could turn aswel as alot of lurchers.. And took any game that was asked of her.. She was lined with a half x bull grey to half x bull grey dog 27ins to the shoulder.. Way I see it to dogs proved there self out in the field with no doubts not to breed them cant see why there is an issue with the pure grey when you have a good one its a good one..!!

it's finding that proven good one thats half the problem

[matt1979 766]

 

 

Some lurcher owners are very ruthless sandy, like the best terriermen/coursing lads, the difference is they are proven in the field, not track.

I don’t know of any lucher owners who would be able to pick the best out of a hundred let alone one in a thousand.

 

As to track proven, well one must consider it in context, a greyhound that is bred from the best of the best that completes a racing career during which it must be able to withstand pressure through it joints that would snap the wrists of a lesser athlete. To my mind this athlete is worth a little closer scrutiny.

 

When cornering the bones/wrist joints sustain pressure of 500psi or 20,000 newtons per square cm, in simple terms the wrist and lower limb structures withstand up to 150kg of downward pressure when galloping around a corner.

A greyhound's heart weight ranges from 1.18 to 1.73% of body weight, or 270 grams to 519 grams for a 30kg greyhound, which is higher than an elite racehorse at 1.0-1.3% of its body weight. Other breeds of dogs have a heart weight equal to 0.77%, about half the size of a greyhound.

A fit greyhound has the highest blood volume of any athlete, relative to its body size, with blood contributing 11.4%, compared to 10.5% for a racehorse, 9.5% for a human sprint athlete and 7.2% for a normal pet dog.

Then there’s the muscles that convert this ability to power and speed, these constitute a greater percentage of the total body mass in greyhounds 57% in comparison to humans 40% and other dogs 44%. Of these in comparison to other breeds greyhounds have a proportionally greater pelvic limb muscle mass. Which allows a higher stride frequency and so faster pace.

Without these adaptions a greyhound running around a track at top speed would break its wrists whilst having a heart attack lol.

So when you add greyhound blood to a lurcher strain you don’t just add speed but you also get the physical attributes that back up that speed. The increased heart size and blood volume doesn’t come from beddies or collies and without it the lurcher cannot perform, a lurcher with a beddies heart will never be any good, it would be like putting a Morris minor engine in a Subaru and wondering why you can’t win a rally!

I think it can be said that if a track dog hasn’t got the physicality, ie heart, blood etc it will not be able to compete at the track. Second if it is to chase, what it knows is an artificial lure, for a number of years pushing itself right to the limit time after time it must also have the mental attitude/chase instinct honed to a great degree.

So greyhounds are proven by the track, the problem is the track isn’t a field and greyhound are bred for the track. Lurcher breeders need to tone down these attributes to get a slower animal, a less perfect running machine. But if one can get the Greyhounds heart size, blood volume etc into the body of a lurcher these diluted greyhounds have the physical potential to be really robust. A dog able to take the pressure that greyhounds joints can withstand, the strain on the heart that a greyhound can stand whilst having increased stamina and agility that comes with the reduction in speed are pretty much the basis of every lurcher. When you breed a collie or beddie greyhound ,from the second generation a fair proportion of pups will have the majority heart and blood volume etc of the non-greyhound ancestor and you can’t see this it can only be found through real work, I’ve already said how many really work their lurcher before breeding?? I’d say I have been out with a lot of lurcher men over the years, more than I’d care to remember and I can count on one hand those who realy worked their dogs. I’ve never bred a lurcher, mainly because I’ve never had one that was either good enough or worked hard enough to prove its worth.

 

a salukis heart is a third bigger than any other dog .its lungs are also a third bigger .its skeleton and joints etc are more akin to a cheetahs . a greyhound is with out doubt the most injury prone dog in existence ,bad feet. bad joints .very weak willed .as for stamina .it doesnt have any .

 

Genuine question but how can the saluki heart and lungs be so much bigger than other running dogs when their chest cavity is often similar size to a grey for example. I am not questioning their stamina just thought you might have the answer. On a separate note, comparing the saluki to a cheetah isn't really a link as the cheetah is mechanically one of the poorest animals on the planet for endurance and designed purely for speed just a thought. Biomechanically their must be significant difference in the skeleton or at least gait pattern of the two otherwise the saluki irrelevant of the size of heart and lungs etc would have no wind either and pace to burn neither of which seem the case in my experience (that's not to say they are slow just not pure speed merchants) atb

[trenchfoot 4,243]

So what is it, the saluki or grey with biggest heart? Lol somebody must be wrong

try measuring it with a stop watch

[nothernlite 18,028]

 

So what is it, the saluki or grey with biggest heart? Lol somebody must be wrong

 

try measuring it with a stop watch

 

So what is it, the saluki or grey with biggest heart? Lol somebody must be wrong

 

try measuring it with a stop watch

cracking answer

[roybo 2,873]

.

 

So what is it, the saluki or grey with biggest heart? Lol somebody must be wrong

 

try measuring it with a stop watch

should last a bit longer than needing a stop watch ,but shouldn't need a mileometer lol

[bendrover 556]

Different land dirrerent needs different breeds . Each to there own.

[matt1979 766]

 

 

So what is it, the saluki or grey with biggest heart? Lol somebody must be wrong

try measuring it with a stop watch

Maybe they are similar size and like any working muscle that is trained right, they are biggest in the best trained/ worked dogs. As in the case in most athletes, yes they have the genetics but without the graft that means very little.

[two crows 3,342]

years ago I put a well bred track dog over a home bred first cross saluki greyhound bitch the pups had poor feet and three bends, they still killed the odd hare though. pups from the same bitch to a well known saluki had great feet and 6 or 7 minuets ( if needed) and killed loads off hares all well before the ban.in mho the way to go is a modern coursing dog it has loads to offer , pace, stamina, brain, grit, a greyhound offers, raw speed, and recklessness.

[trenchfoot 4,243]

years ago I put a well bred track dog over a home bred first cross saluki greyhound bitch the pups had poor feet and three bends, they still killed the odd hare though. pups from the same bitch to a well known saluki had great feet and 6 or 7 minuets ( if needed) and killed loads off hares all well before the ban.in mho the way to go is a modern coursing dog it has loads to offer , pace, stamina, brain, grit, a greyhound offers, raw speed, and recklessness.

bugger recklessness!, get it over a collie

[brookie 1,193]

 

 

 

Some lurcher owners are very ruthless sandy, like the best terriermen/coursing lads, the difference is they are proven in the field, not track.

I don’t know of any lucher owners who would be able to pick the best out of a hundred let alone one in a thousand.

 

As to track proven, well one must consider it in context, a greyhound that is bred from the best of the best that completes a racing career during which it must be able to withstand pressure through it joints that would snap the wrists of a lesser athlete. To my mind this athlete is worth a little closer scrutiny.

 

When cornering the bones/wrist joints sustain pressure of 500psi or 20,000 newtons per square cm, in simple terms the wrist and lower limb structures withstand up to 150kg of downward pressure when galloping around a corner.

A greyhound's heart weight ranges from 1.18 to 1.73% of body weight, or 270 grams to 519 grams for a 30kg greyhound, which is higher than an elite racehorse at 1.0-1.3% of its body weight. Other breeds of dogs have a heart weight equal to 0.77%, about half the size of a greyhound.

A fit greyhound has the highest blood volume of any athlete, relative to its body size, with blood contributing 11.4%, compared to 10.5% for a racehorse, 9.5% for a human sprint athlete and 7.2% for a normal pet dog.

Then there’s the muscles that convert this ability to power and speed, these constitute a greater percentage of the total body mass in greyhounds 57% in comparison to humans 40% and other dogs 44%. Of these in comparison to other breeds greyhounds have a proportionally greater pelvic limb muscle mass. Which allows a higher stride frequency and so faster pace.

Without these adaptions a greyhound running around a track at top speed would break its wrists whilst having a heart attack lol.

So when you add greyhound blood to a lurcher strain you don’t just add speed but you also get the physical attributes that back up that speed. The increased heart size and blood volume doesn’t come from beddies or collies and without it the lurcher cannot perform, a lurcher with a beddies heart will never be any good, it would be like putting a Morris minor engine in a Subaru and wondering why you can’t win a rally!

I think it can be said that if a track dog hasn’t got the physicality, ie heart, blood etc it will not be able to compete at the track. Second if it is to chase, what it knows is an artificial lure, for a number of years pushing itself right to the limit time after time it must also have the mental attitude/chase instinct honed to a great degree.

So greyhounds are proven by the track, the problem is the track isn’t a field and greyhound are bred for the track. Lurcher breeders need to tone down these attributes to get a slower animal, a less perfect running machine. But if one can get the Greyhounds heart size, blood volume etc into the body of a lurcher these diluted greyhounds have the physical potential to be really robust. A dog able to take the pressure that greyhounds joints can withstand, the strain on the heart that a greyhound can stand whilst having increased stamina and agility that comes with the reduction in speed are pretty much the basis of every lurcher. When you breed a collie or beddie greyhound ,from the second generation a fair proportion of pups will have the majority heart and blood volume etc of the non-greyhound ancestor and you can’t see this it can only be found through real work, I’ve already said how many really work their lurcher before breeding?? I’d say I have been out with a lot of lurcher men over the years, more than I’d care to remember and I can count on one hand those who realy worked their dogs. I’ve never bred a lurcher, mainly because I’ve never had one that was either good enough or worked hard enough to prove its worth.

 

a salukis heart is a third bigger than any other dog .its lungs are also a third bigger .its skeleton and joints etc are more akin to a cheetahs . a greyhound is with out doubt the most injury prone dog in existence ,bad feet. bad joints .very weak willed .as for stamina .it doesnt have any .

 

Genuine question but how can the saluki heart and lungs be so much bigger than other running dogs when their chest cavity is often similar size to a grey for example. I am not questioning their stamina just thought you might have the answer. On a separate note, comparing the saluki to a cheetah isn't really a link as the cheetah is mechanically one of the poorest animals on the planet for endurance and designed purely for speed just a thought. Biomechanically their must be significant difference in the skeleton or at least gait pattern of the two otherwise the saluki irrelevant of the size of heart and lungs etc would have no wind either and pace to burn neither of which seem the case in my experience (that's not to say they are slow just not pure speed merchants) atb

 

this is a pure bred saluki .theres not a greyhound in the country can do the same ,theres some very useful links on line as well about salukis genetic make up compared to a greyhounds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhpVI-zFj20#t=59

[NEWSBOY 306]

Wouldnt own a pure saluki either, never mind saluki this, that,other, its only when you cross them you get owt worth keeping.

[brookie 1,193]

Wouldnt own a pure saluki either, never mind saluki this, that,other, its only when you cross them you get owt worth keeping.

nor me ,theyre rubbish