Pre Locator Days

[perthshire keeper 1,237]

never seen anybody putting ear on the bar

its shit lol

[liamdelaney 2,586]

We dug for yeas with no collars,mute dogs wee useless a good baying was was highly valued.It often took a few hours just to find him,seen the old timers locating with sticks held to the ground,could never master it myself.Digging now is easy(in my opinion)collar up the dog,locate him and dig down.Now a lot of people want to get down quick,so a lot of dogs are not tested like they were before.We dug some big places back then because we were young and wanted to prove we could do it.We lost some dogs but not many considering the amount of heavy digging we were doing.We put a Lakeland to ground in what looked like a simple place in Co laois and lost all contact with the the bitch not a sound,all day we listened dropped holes and spread out over a big area with our ears to the ground with no joy.We went back the next day still nothing,then the farmer came and told us there was a big hollow in the field and he covered it in covering a set as well,obviously the occupants had bored back down over time.We got a digger and went down as far as the boom would go,got down and heard her barking dug about six feet with shovels and there she was with three in a stopend,two days she stuck with her task.We never went back to that one.

[12 gauge 39]

anyone ever used a stethoscope

[J Darcy 5,871]

anyone ever used a stethoscope

I have. They don't work. Least, mine didn't.

[neil cooney 10,415]

Thankfully those days are gone. Several terriers to ground at once, earths destroyed forever with trenching, bars stuck through terriers and quarry, days wasted looking for dogs and then as your about to break through you look up and here's the terrier looking down at you , never one of mine though, LOL.

Even when the grey box was in it's infancy they were that unreliable that it was vital that the terrier man knew how to locate his terrier.

It usually started with someone ramming their head down the entrance as soon as the terrier entered to see did he go left, right or straight on. That then (but not always) usually told you what direction to start looking. Then it was everyone on their knees listening or trying to feel a bump or two through their knees, cheek or palms of their hands. Some lads were gifted at finding terriers and if they knew the ground and the terrier they could be quiet accurate at guessing the depth.

Also, many's a lurcher was brilliant at locating terriers under ground. Whether it was through sound or vibration they would be spot on. The same lurchers often wouldn't take a bolted fox but earned their grub by locating terriers.

Big places were usually only tried by accident and on a stormy day (like today) you often stayed at home.

Stories of terriers staying for days until located were IMO just stories. Stuck yes but working, I doubt it.

It was common practice to work the same 2 terriers together all the time and you'd find they'd build up a team and when you broke through it was always the same terrier in front while the one behind was the one letting you know where they were by both sounding and appearing out every few minutes.

Men also in those day were a lot more used to a manual days work so digging 5 or 6 holes or trenching on was a walk in the park for them.

Bars were usual made from old buck rakes (which were thrown into manys a ditch, whereas now they're collectors items) and had a spring in them and lads with a good bar minded them jealously.

But Amen for the locator. It's kinder on the terrier, the quarry , the earths and your back. It's also IMO refined terrier work and help make better terriers and better terrier men.

The only downsides to the locator are that it means that your terrier is now to ground while wearing a collar and folk are too quick to locate their terrier and start digging.

It's terrier in, terrier located, jackets off and clay starts flying. The terrier moves and then lads start muttering "wanker".

Both terrier and quarry always need to be allowed settle in a place where the terrier will hold it's quarry and the quarry will be in a place it feels safe.

Years ago while lads were crawling around on all fours this is what was happening and by the time they started to dig both terrier and quarry are in a place your going to get them.

Nowadays, IMO, in a big place an hour is often the time it takes to start digging.

JMHO.

Edited December 27, 2013 by neil cooney

[jigsaw 11,810]

very interesting,I must say,hand on heart Ive never seen any dog ever hurt from a t bar,when we use them(and still do to this day)we dont go ramming them down through the earth like a pile driver,lol..as for the feckers walking out and wanting to lend a hand at the dig,i have seen that but it never happened twice with the same dog and thats for sure.I can recall it was the done thing to try and work managable earths back then and avoid the deeper ones unless it was the last straw..and when we were on tour to new land owners and we faced with new earths we never knew how it would go but the relief was awesome(what the fuk is awesome???? ) when the terrier could be heard from above the ground.believe it or not neil I still have my t bar from a disused hayrake,30 odd years old it is and how we ever used it is beyond me,I think the locator is a god send but with it,the terriers have been modified and hard dogs tolerated a lot more than they would have been back then.is it possible that here is where the wheatens and strong dogs became a very common sight at the end of a dig as accuracy would not have been 100% when breaking in and being a foot or so off,the strong dog went and retrieved the game?just a thought of mine.

[fat man 4,740]

Dug for a good few year without locater but as said you sort of picked your earths that you knew you would be able to work and also the terrier used would be a sounding type.The t-bar when used right was a great tool for locating the dog,i have never seen a terrier been hit by 1 in the process of finding a tube.The locater was a brilliant invention as far as terrier work goes.I would not agree that it makes for a better terrier or man but it has saved a lot of terriers from death been able to dig down to them now quicker than before,many the good dog was lost in a cave in or such.The other + with the locater in the type of dogs that can be used varies now as now a harder type can be used and sucessfully dug to as where before it almost had to be a sounder,also all [well almost all]places can be done now regardless of depth or range.Even to this day we still have the t-bar in the van,never far away,just habit i guess but better to be looking at it than looking for it and not a big deal to carry.The old grey box were very acurate but also very unreliable and would let you down at the worst of times,like when a gale would be blown or when a dog is deepish,collar got bitten through very easily then the old t-bar was resurected once again.

[aaron01 737]

Had to do it a few times because of the knocker box collar jackin they didn't seem to like the wet the old collars no matter how much tape you used I remember once in a six footer when the collar packed we spent two hours trying to listen and crawling about to no avail so we dug were we last got a mark to try and get a starting point for the search and low and behold the wee dog was lying mute with the game thank god for b&f these days are gone more or less

[liamdelaney 2,586]

Jesus boys I must be stuck in a time warp,I use the t bar at every dig still LOL.I like to have a listen to whats going on before I break in(just been nosey).If I forgot it I would go home for it,looks like I will have to start doing things the modern way.I also seen plenty of dogs dug out after a number of days that were not stuck.

[TOPPER 1,809]

everybody digging to terriers should know how to locate them without a locater we done it for years as they hadnt invented them back then , i remember putting a russel to ground on a big sprawling earth on a slope about 7 am and we searched all day for that dog never heard a thing sank hole s poked and proded with the t bar nothing came back the next morning and put a dog on a rope sank holes every 8 foot that dog knew where to go but we couldnt here anything then about 5 pm we could hear faint baying so we tunnelled in about 10 foot guessed a mark with the add of the rope dog and sank another 8 foot hole through 2 layers of rock shelf oped this up to find the tube and the dog was another 8 foot up the tube so tunnelled in to pulled the dog back to find 2 in the pot and they wanted out as fast as we slithered back with the dog by the back legs they were there just in front got back to the hole and stood up handed the dog up and 2 fattys were trying to get out of the hole no room for a shot so a tap with a spade then tossed then out to administer a lead injection what a couple of days that was thank fck for locaters they may fail now and then but its rare thank god , on the way home called in at the pub and i dont think the first 3 pints touched the sides but that was a different era i wasnt old enough to drink legally but 3 blokes and a 15 year old lad covered in dirt clay and rock and a couple of bedrangelled mutts and we were treated like heros but not in this day and age sad to say you d be in the nick and shund as the scum of society , but they were good days folk had time for each other

[dytkos 17,564]

When I started out the Deben 8 footers were about 40 quid or so I think.

I just couldn't afford one, so it was go out with someone who had one and wait your turn,

3rd, if I was lucky LOL, or go solo and get my go first LOL

 

Cheers, D.

 

BTW I went on your profile accidently Topper

[neil cooney 10,415]

very interesting,I must say,hand on heart Ive never seen any dog ever hurt from a t bar,when we use them(and still do to this day)we dont go ramming them down through the earth like a pile driver,lol..as for the feckers walking out and wanting to lend a hand at the dig,i have seen that but it never happened twice with the same dog and thats for sure.I can recall it was the done thing to try and work managable earths back then and avoid the deeper ones unless it was the last straw..and when we were on tour to new land owners and we faced with new earths we never knew how it would go but the relief was awesome(what the fuk is awesome???? ) when the terrier could be heard from above the ground.believe it or not neil I still have my t bar from a disused hayrake,30 odd years old it is and how we ever used it is beyond me,I think the locator is a god send but with it,the terriers have been modified and hard dogs tolerated a lot more than they would have been back then.is it possible that here is where the wheatens and strong dogs became a very common sight at the end of a dig as accuracy would not have been 100% when breaking in and being a foot or so off,the strong dog went and retrieved the game?just a thought of mine.

Spot on Jigsaw, a lump of a dog that could be used to hold or pull one at the end was a tool in those days, not a sporting exercise. I know of collies, a labrador, mongerals and the various strong dog breeds that were all used. It didn't matter if they screamed the national anthem while they did it as long as they did it.

Thankfully those days are where they belong, in the history books.

[jigsaw 11,810]

I have to say I miss the strong dogs neil.I had great admiration for them,I know the terrier did the real hard work but the lumps had to take a lot of stick to get the job done too,I would safetly state EVERY terrier man from long ago in Ireland anyway had some experience of owning or being present while a strong dog did his thing.god be with the days lol.

[fat man 4,740]

There was nothing wrong with a strong dog,as said good tool at the end of a dig in certain situations but in the right hands,its the macho lads that got the strong dog a bad name same as it is with the lurcher and terrier men always someone to f**k it up and then everyone gets tarred with the same brush.You will always find its the lads that are not in the game 5minutes that are causing bother and lads that are at all there lives then they get hassled aswell even though they do nothing wrong.

[liamdelaney 2,586]

i also dont miss the kick in the arse from some old timer if you were talking or making noise while they listened.