.17 Wsm Update

[Alsone 789]

As a few of you know, I've been tracking this eargerly and I've come across a couple of real life situational HD videos now.

 

In this 1st one, the targets are rabbits and ground squirrel.

 

The damage is actually much less than I've seen from a HMR, I'm guessing that maybe the higher velocity is carrying the bullet through the small target before the fragments have as much time to tracks sideways and cause lateral damage.

 

This is actually good news for rabbit shooters!

 

Bit of general discussion before get to the shooting. Shooting has close ups of the damage:

 

 

 

 

The 2nd video shows a Coyote being dropped with .17WSM. Very brief part of the clip but it looks to drop like a stone:

 

Edited July 20, 2013 by Alsone

[bbjaccov5 4]

Real nice ammo!

 

So stupid we can't have it in Holland...

 

Gr Jacco

[Alsone 789]

Why aren't you allowed rimfire ammunition?

[Craig83 52]

I asked the Winchester Rep about it today at the game fayre.

 

He said you will see the round and rifle end of 2014 early 2015

 

Hornady have commented too. They will not follow suite and continue promoting .17 Hornet

[Alsone 789]

Hornady have commented too. They will not follow suite and continue promoting .17 Hornet

 

So the ammo will be WInchester then.

 

Must admit I can't really see the logic in that for Hornady, they sell rounds either way and considering its harder to get a grant for a centrefire than a rimfire, and given the ammo costs, I expect they would sell far more rimfire in .17 WSM than they'd ever sell .17 Hornet. Maybe its just not established enough yet.

 

I know in the US from searches that there are long waiting lists and shortages of Savage B-Mag rifles at many dealers despite some reported alleged issues with cycling and also a few comments about the rifle allegedly being plasticky. I'n guessing the 2014 estimate on the rifles over here could be the result of overwhelming demand over there. What is really needed is for some other rifle manufacturers to start chambering for this cartridge to speed up adoption.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Alsone

[zx10mike 137]

if winchester can't make hmr ammo that is reliable why the hell make a faster pile of crap? sort hmr brass and ammo that your allready selling before starting something new.

[bbjaccov5 4]

Why aren't you allowed rimfire ammunition?

 

In Holland the smallest callibre is .22 the goverment thinks everything smaller than a .22 is dangerous... I would think the .22 lr is more dangerous than the .17 bullets because in my experience the .22lr bullets do not fragment but after hitting something continue to fly.

 

gr Jacco

[Craig83 52]

 

Hornady have commented too. They will not follow suite and continue promoting .17 Hornet

 

So the ammo will be WInchester then.

 

Must admit I can't really see the logic in that for Hornady, they sell rounds either way and considering its harder to get a grant for a centrefire than a rimfire, and given the ammo costs, I expect they would sell far more rimfire in .17 WSM than they'd ever sell .17 Hornet. Maybe its just not established enough yet.

 

I know in the US from searches that there are long waiting lists and shortages of Savage B-Mag rifles at many dealers despite some reported alleged issues with cycling and also a few comments about the rifle allegedly being plasticky. I'n guessing the 2014 estimate on the rifles over here could be the result of overwhelming demand over there. What is really needed is for some other rifle manufacturers to start chambering for this cartridge to speed up adoption.

 

 

There is alot of factors they said which would make the .17 WSM crap.

 

I dont think its that hard to get .17 hornet. Its just horse's for course's i suppose

 

Finally i guess Hornady just dont think its worth the investment

[charlie caller 3,654]

if winchester can't make hmr ammo that is reliable why the hell make a faster pile of crap? sort hmr brass and ammo that your allready selling before starting something new.

I quite agree,Hornady have probably recognised the fact that this nail gun cartridge is just another trendy cartridge like the shite .17hmr, designed to relieve the "must have the latest thing"shooters of some cash,it will be all the rage for 5 minutes when it comes out, and we will see the endless stream of posts like (what scope for my new nail gun) (rabbit shot at 3 miles with nail gun) crap that we see for the hmr all the time,then the inevitable, wsm burst case,case stuck, my nail gun blew up ect ect, if you must have a .17 get a proper one a centerfire that you can reload and wont be suffering from all the same issues as hmr,get a .17 hornet or a .17 rem, not a bleedin nail gun

[Alsone 789]

Well I've not heard of any cartridge issues although there are only a very limited number of people who are posting anywhere who have these guns as they are in very short supply. In fact the cartridges are 50% thicker brass than in the HMR. Only issue I've heard of is with the cartirdge allegedly faiing to eject sometimes out of the Savage B-Mag but that could the gun as much as the cartridge as one of the press day videos also made mention of this with the B-Mag ejector.

 

As for the.17 Hornet, the issues are cost (not everyone wants to reload or invest in reloading equipment which is very expensive), and the WSM look to be around $15-20 per 50, and also the fact that centrefire is more difficult to get on a ticket than rimfire, at least without a lot more experience under your belt.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well it remains to be seen if it suffers case issues, but I am willing to have a few quid on the fact that it will, as for ease of getting one on your ticket, well if you have land passed for the calibre you are applying for,and can show good reason then getting a cf is no more difficult than a rf,plus I bet that lots of licensing authorities, mine included will not allow it for fox,so if you are in one of those areas, what is the point of it? Another next to useless loud crow and bunny gun, and as for reloading, I accept that there are people who do not wish to reload(although secondhand gear can be had at very reasonable money)but I think the primary use of a .17 hornet or rem will be foxes,so ok even if factory ammo is a bit minty how many rounds do we fire out foxing in an average session? And you can always offset the cost of your factory ammo by selling your once fired brass to someone who reloads.

Edited July 21, 2013 by charlie caller

[Craig83 52]

Well it remains to be seen if it suffers case issues, but I am willing to have a few quid on the fact that it will, as for ease of getting one on your ticket, well if you have land passed for the calibre you are applying for,and can show good reason then getting a cf is no more difficult than a rf,plus I bet that lots of licensing authorities, mine included will not allow it for fox,so if you are in one of those areas, what is the point of it? Another next to useless loud crow and bunny gun, and as for reloading, I accept that there are people who do not wish to reload(although secondhand gear can be had at very reasonable money)but I think the primary use of a .17 hornet or rem will be foxes,so ok even if factory ammo is a bit minty how many rounds do we fire out foxing in an average session? And you can always offset the cost of your factory ammo by selling your once fired brass to someone who reloads.

 

I kind of agree, but remember some people have to start some where. I'm a big fan of .17 HMR, and at close range its been know to take out foxes stone dead.

 

The only problem i see with .17 Hornet is its still a bit new, and id like to see another gun house build a rifle for it.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Yes I accept that the hmr will kill foxes at a sensible range, as will a .22lr, but the problem starts when the man with his hmr thinks he has a .22-250 in his hands instead of a glorified popgun and starts shooting at foxes 250 yards away with it, result = wounded fox, and CZ have started making the .17 hornet in 527 guise not sure when it will grace our shores though.

[Alsone 789]

,plus I bet that lots of licensing authorities, mine included will not allow it for fox,so if you are in one of those areas, what is the point of it? Another next to useless loud crow and bunny gun, and as for reloading

 

I would be very surprised if that was the case.

 

It's been specifically designed as a Coyote round and even the ammo is labelled as such - "Varmint and Coyote".

 

 

 

With your experience and knowledge you don't need me to tell you a Coyote is a much tougher predator than a fox.

 

Plus at 250 yds it has more more velocity than a .22 Hornet and around the same energy. On that basis, I can see no reason why its not going to be very a good low noise, low recoil and cheap long range foxing round.

 

In addition to the 20gr round there's also a 25gr version which substitutes a bit of weight for velocity. Still a fast round but around 2,600fps instead of 3,000. Only time will tell whether 20gr or 25gr is the way to go but I'd imagine a 25gr bullet at 2,600 fps and as much energy as a .22 Hornet down range (assuming similar energy figures to the 20gr round), will do a lot of damage.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well all forces see things differently, my force South Yorks will not allow any rimfire for foxes, whereas next door Derbyshire will allow .22lr for fox,I don't doubt given the ballistics that it will despatch foxes cleanly your 25 grain pillis producing 375 ftlbs at the muzzle I can load a 45 grain Hornet bullet to do 2975 fps = 884 ftlbs energy at the muzzle, so ok we are talking reloading here, but it does not even make half the energy of that loading,so yes if you compare it to some plodding along factory load the ballistics are similar, but not even close with good reloads,which is the beauty of the hornet.