Move To .177

[Daz 7 563]

Shot .22 for 30+ years and quite a few with .177 both are good and accurate but i have now Discovered My Ultimate cal and rifle combo by just fancying something different

The result is a bonding of My favourite Air Rifle of all time The Theoben Rapid in the guise of the model known as the TTR 1 in .25 cal mated with it's favoured pellet

H & N FTT in 19.91 gr, Don't get Me wrong with all the trial and error with the different .25 pellets out there and the extreme weights of some of them it's been a Pig to learn

the drop off and maximum range to get the best out of said combo but now i've have mastered it.

I've got it accurate out to a Maximum of 75 yards, And seeing them Big ol pellets fly and Hit Vermin is something else, So much so the MK 2 Rapid .177 hardly gets a look in now.

So while your all arguing over .177,.20 or .22 which is best i'm happy just Blatting the heavy cal.

[barrywhite 282]

just to get this going a bit hydrostatic shock .I have no proof but I do feel a fast light 177 has more hydrostatic shock than a slow heavy 22 .I am looking on the net to get information but if any one knows?

[Lewis Ste 245]

I don't normally like commenting on threads like these because it the same thing over and over again but iv used .177 and .22 but now I have a lrf and know my milldots it seems irresponsible the shoot an animal with a smaller projectile. For birds I find .177 great plenty of size but for rabbits and squirrels it just have the consistent kill rate. Plus I'm a one gun man so the .22 works out better for me.

 

Just my opinion tho, Lewis

[villaman 9,980]

just to get this going a bit hydrostatic shock .I have no proof but I do feel a fast light 177 has more hydrostatic shock than a slow heavy 22 .I am looking on the net to get information but if any one knows?

Have a look at this http://www.thefreelibrary.com/.177+or+.22%3A+which+caliber+is+for+you%3F-a0207048673

[Alan Holmes 11]

Villaman an interesting read thanks! Despite these facts people are still turning to the smaller calibre. Maybe this is also related to the quality and accuracy of modern guns?

[fry 209]

they are just an easier option for an accurate shot over a larger range! as long as its not windy! thats how i see it.

[Fieldsports 155]

I really was telling myself not to post on this thread as it can become argumentative and way too controversial but hey its a forum and this is my opinion.

I also grew up in times like mawders said " when .177 was seen as inferior for hunting and only appropriate for hitting paper targets”.
Maybe because of stigma at the time I used a .22 air rifle in my younger days as .177 was frowned upon with the community of people I associated with.

Time moved on....
I moved away from air power to rimfire later in life and have been shooting rimmys for years successfully but I found that I was missing something !
I even passed through the stage of believing air power was never going to be up to the job ( I know it was a very sad and self opinionated selfish attitude to have )

I needed to revert to what I loved and forget the stigma revolving around this.

(I know someone in this thread wrote this but it is true.)
(With the progress of technology we sometimes loose field skills or abandon skills that made our experiences so much more memorable and sometimes we need to reflect on where we began and why we are good at what we do using traditional methods we grew up with.) “It went something like that”
So I decided to move back to air power to regain my stance to where I began.
I will admit when I was young none of this internet information was available so all I went off was a small community of associates and now reflecting on this the information they shared was useless really.
I researched lots and visited loads of people I know and some new acquaintance who were very knowledgable in the air rifle world, I had the opportunity to witness both .22 and .177 cal air rifles being used to control vermin in the UK.
I was very impressed with the .177 as it has a much flatter trajectory and travels faster not saying that the .22 is no good but in my opinion for an all round gun I had to opt for the .177.
I chose a HW100KT after looking, using and owning other rifles, it seems to be very accurate and does what I ask of it, to be honest it is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned and I suspect the rifle is way better than me.
I was a rimfire bloke shooting my quarry between 35 yards and yards !
I can honestly say the .177 does preform well between 35 and 50 yards if my shot placement is right as it should this is my caliber to use.
My only regrets is ....why did I not do this years ago and save money on licensing fees, ammo and be way more quieter in the field + now I can shoot skywards if it is safe.

[andyfr1968 772]

As an answer to the OP's question.... And to qualify my arguement with a certain dick head.

 

Thirty five years ago I started hunting with airguns and .22 was the hunting caliber. .177 was for paper punchers and tin can cowboys. None of my mates shot so I had little input from elsewhere back then, just my Dad who was a weapons instructor with the RAF Regiment. Bigger is best was his motto.

 

I kept with this school of thought for many years, my first proper airgun was an HW80 .22 when I was fourteen, loved it and wish I'd never sold it. I then left school and my first job was in a gun shop as an apprentice gun smith. Happy days. This gave me access to all kinds of kit

 

I stuck with .22 for quite a while but a really nice tasty .177 HW77 came through the door one day that ended up as a keeper for me. That was over twenty years ago and .177 was the way to go from then on. Loved it. So easy to place my shots

 

After that, all my sub 12 guns were in .177 until I decided to give .20 a try five years back. Yes it's been said many times before that it's a compromise but as compromises go it's a bloody good one

 

So, Jandcguns. You may have had a couple of lucky body shots as I know it can be done if you know what you're doing but I doubt that you do from what you've posted. Just give it up and stick to porn sights

 

As has been said sooooo many times before, shot placement is the key, not the caliber.

[pianoman 3,584]

This is a personal experience.

 

I once shot a rabbit clean through the sockets of both eyes with an FAC .177 TX200 and that shot didn't kill it. I shot another clean through both ear lobes with the same rifle and that didn't kill that one outright either. In both cases, I had the rabbits brains set perfectly in the scope...and they moved just as I fired! It sent the poor things screaming in circles!

 

With a .177 rifle you either hit the brain and kill it outright. OR, hit it anywhere else in the head and the chances are it will suffer. As for body shots, it's the same thing with .177. With FAC levels of 16-18 ft/lbs behind it, a .177 pellet will zip clean through a rabbit's head and take most of the shock knock-down power with it, leaving the animal with a hole drilled through but not enough percussion to cause hydrostatic shock damage and put it down for good. You'll kill it slowly out of reach with sepsis.

 

Since my experience with this smaller calibre, I'm more inclined towards .22 for hunting and only when a clean headshot presents itself. And .177 for target and pigeon/corvid shooting. That's my personal view and how I set about my shooting day; not a set-in-stone rule of shooting for all.

 

But, in my experience .22 takes em all! It's fine for me!

 

Pianoman

[Skot Ruthless Teale 1,701]

Quote " .22 are useless "

 

dont think so. every calibre has its pros and cons.

At sub 12 ft lbs .177 .20 .22 and .25 are all capable of clean kills and none are, quote, " well miles better " than any of the others..

If the pellet hits the heart or the brain in the right place its goodbye vermin.

[ghillies 209]

i see were bursting into the adult world of shouting it louder..does any one put their fingers in their ears and shout 'i cant here you'.. just a thought. (think about it..stood next to the idiot when he has a gun?? runawayyyyy!!!..if you get my drift)

 

 

ok, theres a fraction of diference in aproach between the 2 calibers..30 years of playing at it showed me this...i lived it 24/7 for 2 years and had 2 weeks off, and 2 christms days of.. i mean day and night up to 16 hours some days/nights, i get the jist! (the preverbial wheres my limb when i hadnt got a gun..yu cn lagh but its true, feels like you lost a limb! lol.)

 

if your paper punching, even one single hole stuff, when you do it on live stuff, ok, 70- percent your 'text buck bunny' stuff you will obtain a dead kill in one shot, but heres the funny thing, when you learned old school, from a teenager, no coaching, zero knowladge you learn by hit and miss, or worse, the one thing that become obvious is every live shot is 'diferent' every shot has an angle, you aproach the shot from where you are, standing sitting walking what ever..that minute 'diference' is where the two calibers differ, for instance the slug of a .22 is mawdlin on over there, it even had a buffet on the way over, the .177 is on speed and stopping for no one lol, so theres a diference in shot placement 'timing' as well as paper dont move, a bunny can and will.

 

already theres two minute diferences that make a huge difference on your kill average when you change from one caliber to another.

 

mensioned above is the shot through the eyes and the shot through the ears with FAC, and the rabbit moved slightly.. thats all in on the timing and angle of the shot.. it's learned, unfortunatly paper dont move and critters do.(theres animals and humans that actualy live and live full lives with no brain in the skull cavity..yehhhh seriously! and theres the rasputin types that just refuse to die too..few and far between but non the less real!).

 

another comman mistake is going from177 to 22, rats, the old favourate rats lol...the rat bowls over with a huge screem and a wack, cracking bod shot but the thing gets away...dohhhh the imidiate reaction after several of these shots is 22 is shit on a bod shot (most leave at just shit, and discount the bod region factor)..problem is the rats are actualy timing the pellet, they stamp a foot down and pretend to be hit!! takes ages to suss that one, but as soon as you do it's really obvious.(and yeh they do, from like 6 yards even..one at 4 yards was the best i've seen lol)

 

going from 22 to 177 is sort of the oposite, if your acustomed to slower velosity then the 177 is arriving early on some things thats moving, or at least 'could move and isnt staticically still' so it arrives early.(the angle through the bod is sorta different as well as the timing..you'll know what i mean when you get there)

 

the only time the average person starts to see this in any depth is when theyve done enough to let there brain grow the paths to acces this minute bit of detail.(again shout all yu wants about this being barmy lol!! its a fact jack..yu learn to do stuff, when yu learn your brain grows another nural net path..or? yu cant do it right.)

 

to put that into context, theres a point where from the time you put the cross hair on a bonse to squeezing and pellet ariving and the follow through is in under a second, but in your head it may as well be an hour lol...yeh it leasts 'forever' lol.. untill you've been there you can only sumise what its like.

 

a 22 does do a cracking head shot...really wacks it proper, well, acourding the the sound of the bone cracking.(you should here my 177 at 50 yards going clean through bunny skulls..sounds like a rimmy hitting! n yeh i checked the power thrice at three diferent places lol!!)

 

try this though, tuned .177 at 10.4 fp, 65 yard rabbits, 2 of one after the other, followed by one at 40, and 1 at 25yards, ALL hit square in the jaw with a 10.3 grain pellet.

ok in the jaw? how many said owch they ran off? i would... but nope even the 65 yarders x2 dropped stone dead no fussing...weird int it? its the last place i'd want to hit even after 30 years!!

i messed up on distance that night, it was the blackest night i've seen in donkies years on logan lamp, i just knew on auto pilot where to hit them...or i thought i did.(inch short because of my 'miss judged distance' in that blackness with a crap lamp).

moral of the tail being makes jack sh!t diference on the caliber, ohh, and use adiquate lighting lol.(needs to be a good 20 yards further on open feilds of clear sight to allow for the diferent condisions.)

 

it's shot 'placement' that matters...and accuracy is the all and end of in that placement, which funilly enough is all about you and how much practice you can put in, NOWT to do with caliber, infact, its the gun, the barrel, you...pellet standard not caliber, and pellet quolity matched to a rifling, the caliber its self at legal limits is naff all to do with it, they have a similar energy on arrival..theres another difference of a minute kind where the pellets best etc etc etc.

 

du dahhh...

 

swear all yu want, shout all yu want, its you pulling the trigger, your own skill leval, so end of the day everyones skill leval or particular 'thing' is different, so how can you go saying this n that for everybody? (have you both learned and trained hundreds of people from noddy to exspert?)

 

theres green horn noddies.. the 2-3 year weekenders then of course the life time weekenders..then the hard core such as zini who've done it day in day out..a different world when you get that much time under your belt.

 

yu can only vote on what yu know...

 

 

now fu gawd sake grow up with the f'in and blinding lol.. makes us all look like nutters that shouldnt have a gun in a sealed room ffs!

Edited April 5, 2013 by ghillies

[ghillies 209]

to up the anti a bit.

 

i dont think many people actualy know the fullness of a question like what caliber is best.

 

one person has one thing in mind, the other another diferent thing in mind, all have a personal exsperience be it exstencive or just a little bit, when they all meet the frustrasion of the learning prosose and brain growth tends to bring out the tantrums, just as kids go through it as they grow, adults do too.

(btw..tv fecks yu mind, rewars your brain with doapamene or whatever the hormoane is called, but it rewards inert states of mind that cause depresion...take it away and you get fully facalties adults in tears haveing a propa melt down.. make them do the kids O leval, and quite a few have crying fits and cant hack the presure etc etc..it's all fact!)

 

so..what is being asked about which is best?

 

is it, whch is more accurate? .22 is fractionaly more accurate..fractionaly, but thats only half the story on that front.

 

is which is easiest? neather! you still have to learn the same basic tragectory.(be it 17 20 22 or 52'0)

 

whick 'kills best' neather again!!! not at such an open ended question! BECAUSE NUMPTY SEVEN OTHER FACTORS ARE AT PLAY.

 

..........

 

22 is a fraction more penatrative, although 177 has the reputasion of over panatrating..

 

for every answer is an oposite no its not so nerrr..and the rows and bickering.

 

truth is untill you can get a bit more velosity involved then for just dead violence of impact the bigger and faster is always going to kill more untill well, its dead any way th rest is just exsploiding soil and special effect.

 

heres the kicker...its all opperated by human hand and subject to human error..and bickering, and tantrums lol!!

 

the only thing that matters at 12fp legal limits is your own skill leval, your own way of doing things and how much time you put in.

 

but..to add to the bicker about aunt nellies knickers.. you want .20..........the diference in velosity and weight put the pellet hot spots in a diferent region and over all bestest of all the points and oposite arguements on paper.. but if it dont suit what you do in the feild its naff

 

see where its all going now?

 

statick, and on paper with gell impact tests? all well if your clamping a gun down and shooting gel..

 

so heres some more to muddle at.

 

2 same guns with 2 different barrels, they both ideally need 2 diferent pellets with 2 diferent ports..so 2 diferent 'powers'.. omnes a wicked killer with its individual brand of pellet at 20-40 yards, but it wont hit past 50, tuther is really good at 30-60 yards but you hit at plus if you want.

'which is the best caliber?'..........fffffffffffffffffffff theyre both the same.

ok..2 calibres, they cant tune the same as such because theyre diferent..ones 'ideal' velocity is capped by law and 12fp, just as the others is. they have the same energy, so we enter into bigger surface area and the likes, retained enegy this and wow look at the blood fly that...

 

its all if the individual has both the feild craft and skill to perform on par with the gun..if the guns pap its pap end of. if your pap thats the end of the best gun in the world.

 

now to the nitty gritty, 2 calibers, two hot bestestestesteststs guns in the world with 2 perfect sci fi killers skill leval shooters, they have the nano tec pellets..its all getting silly now int it lol..but..yu get the idia.

 

on a mouse which is best caliber? lmao...50? lead bigger than its head? blah blah.

 

the percentage of missing shows up one over the other, but head shots cant really be counted..yu know, what ever the caliber its dead..

 

so now were onto the more exsperienced things like heart shots, liver n lung shots, what creatures can take what damage etc, and of course what gun kills best at what ranges..or for what purpose?

again....down to the user and physical atributes of the pellet 'make'..ie. a fousand miles an hour on a very soft lead and it exsploids..dunt matter what cal, it does matter what size target though.

ppenatrasion...same thing.. 22 goes through soft stuff more than .177, 177 goes through harder materials 5 times more than than a .22...but but but but but

 

and it matters where you put it..

 

round and round in curcles.. you'll never encounter an average hunting kill score rate strapping agun to a bench and shooting gell packs all day.

 

what purpose do you need it for? thats the question to start with, even then it isnt caliber..yet again.

 

each has a better use...if you know how again the caliber is irrelivent....its user defined.

[ghillies 209]

fff i give up trying to word this lol..

 

pellet placement is everything.

 

caliber is nothing.

 

all difined by user and gun/pellet quolity and TIME IN.

 

yu cant quontify a noddies use against an exsperts.....yu just cant!

[BenjaminCadd 109]

Maybe .22 is too challenging for him, seems a chopper, one single hob ferret aswell......should always be kept in pairs at least! It would not surprise me if your lurcher is on roids (so it gets there faster) hahaha.

Edited April 5, 2013 by BenjaminCadd

[ghillies 209]

well..one things been established, a bit of decorum lol.

 

shall we progress and difine the caliber debate?

 

what usuage we talking? lmao!

 

i feel good today, thats nearly 4 1/2 hours of not so shitty...cant beet it lmao!

Edited April 5, 2013 by ghillies