I hear you Fat man, and if it works there isn't any bull blood in the last 30 for you then With the terriers I see and mine week in week out in the last 30 years plus there has ben know added blood, it works for us. Imo if you can establish a line with no added bull blood then that is a patterdale, a black/choco terrier with added bull isn't a pat is a bull x. JMHO. wish every one the best with what they have. p.s. I was in Ireland last weekend and had a great time, next time im over maybe we could meet up and maybe just maybe you could show me your xs.