Judges for Ballywalter Game Fair

[lurcher330 2,297]

I think they days of the proper working lurcher are finished at your shows. Albert with all the talk of breed standard There is no breed standard with 3or 4 dogs in the mix .Are you intending to push the working lurcher men out while pomoting the race and show click ? I will be happy to spend my money else where if this is the case

When Rose Judge the whippets in Shanes Castle the champion whippet was the same whippet that won the working class,which was a working whippet

 

Graham you protest to much, but I know where your coming from....

Not protesting John,just proving a point,the bitch was Simons whippet bitch

Yea Graham Meeks whippet don't know if he works it and Fiona won the over with Maveric judged by Humphrys but that is old news I was not speaking about Rose I was on about breed standards and judges having to meet a criteria It is meant to fun at the shows not crufts Next Albert will asking for a dress code Which puts Rose out if you look at the pictures from shanes 2010

No it was a chap from meath called Simon that own the bitch she picked as champion

[Irish Lurcher 1,013]

I think they days of the proper working lurcher are finished at your shows. Albert with all the talk of breed standard There is no breed standard with 3or 4 dogs in the mix .Are you intending to push the working lurcher men out while pomoting the race and show click ? I will be happy to spend my money else where if this is the case

When Rose Judge the whippets in Shanes Castle the champion whippet was the same whippet that won the working class,which was a working whippet

 

Graham you protest to much, but I know where your coming from....

Not protesting John,just proving a point,the bitch was Simons whippet bitch

 

which one was that Graham, brindle

[AlbertJ 569]

I think they days of the proper working lurcher are finished at your shows. Albert with all the talk of breed standard There is no breed standard with 3or 4 dogs in the mix .Are you intending to push the working lurcher men out while pomoting the race and show click ? I will be happy to spend my money else where if this is the case

When Rose Judge the whippets in Shanes Castle the champion whippet was the same whippet that won the working class,which was a working whippet

 

Graham you protest to much, but I know where your coming from....

Not protesting John,just proving a point,the bitch was Simons whippet bitch

Yea Graham Meeks whippet don't know if he works it and Fiona won the over with Maveric judged by Humphrys but that is old news I was not speaking about Rose I was on about breed standards and judges having to meet a criteria It is meant to fun at the shows not crufts Next Albert will asking for a dress code Which puts Rose out if you look at the pictures from shanes 2010

 

Pigsy,

 

I had hoped this thread would have finished by now - I was talking about the fact that lurchers are harder to judge because UNLIKE PEDIGREE DOG SHOWS there is NO BREED STANDARD.

 

I also said that Ideally for shows the size of ours all judges would be like Barrie and Kieran who have had success at shows, a reputation for good working dogs and judging experience. Your have to start judging somewhere but on a personal basis I think you need at least 2 out of 3. Now tell me how does that push out ' working guys ' who want to show their dogs?

 

Why not see the judging before you criticise the judge?

 

Albertj

[Guest Sorley Boys clan]

I think they days of the proper working lurcher are finished at your shows. Albert with all the talk of breed standard There is no breed standard with 3or 4 dogs in the mix .Are you intending to push the working lurcher men out while pomoting the race and show click ? I will be happy to spend my money else where if this is the case

When Rose Judge the whippets in Shanes Castle the champion whippet was the same whippet that won the working class,which was a working whippet

 

Graham you protest to much, but I know where your coming from....

Not protesting John,just proving a point,the bitch was Simons whippet bitch

Yea Graham Meeks whippet don't know if he works it and Fiona won the over with Maveric judged by Humphrys but that is old news I was not speaking about Rose I was on about breed standards and judges having to meet a criteria It is meant to fun at the shows not crufts Next Albert will asking for a dress code Which puts Rose out if you look at the pictures from shanes 2010

now somebody was asking for dress code 3 or 4 years ago for the all ireland terrier winner... because the future winner was told to go an buy himself a rig out for the photo shoot FACT an he won with a dog that couldnt even win its class in its next show................ ONLY JOKING Edited March 21, 2012 by Sorley Boys clan

[AlbertJ 569]

Do you not have any allegations to make for 10, 20 or even 30 years ago? Because this year is our 34 year and I will celebrate my 50th Fair at Shanes Castle.

 

For all that time we have put on successful shows for terriers and lurchers. The clubs run the shows I have really only ever financed them until just over year and half ago when I came on this forum to speak for myself because a 'well meaning colleague' was misquoting me when he was defending our events. I make suggestions but the ultimate decision on who is invited to judge is their's. Now the judges for Ballywalter have been selected and that is that for this year. It is everyone's choice whether they want to compete or not.

 

Since I got into consructive discussion with many people on the forum we have had some excellent suggestions and we have made massive innovations in terms of prize structures and competitions and given the terrier & lurcher people a central role in our promotions and good locations WITHIN our fairs.

 

When we make innovations and give extra prizes within the angling, clays and gundogs do we get constant sniping? - no!

 

I'm going to finish off by asking if you were me where would you put further investment of time and money?

 

Albertj

[Guest Sorley Boys clan]

Do you not have any allegations to make for 10, 20 or even 30 years ago? Because this year is our 34 year and I will celebrate my 50th Fair at Shanes Castle.

 

For all that time we have put on successful shows for terriers and lurchers. The clubs run the shows I have really only ever financed them until just over year and half ago when I came on this forum to speak for myself because a 'well meaning colleague' was misquoting me when he was defending our events. I make suggestions but the ultimate decision on who is invited to judge is their's. Now the judges for Ballywalter have been selected and that is that for this year. It is everyone's choice whether they want to compete or not.

 

Since I got into consructive discussion with many people on the forum we have had some excellent suggestions and we have made massive innovations in terms of prize structures and competitions and given the terrier & lurcher people a central role in our promotions and good locations WITHIN our fairs.

 

When we make innovations and give extra prizes within the angling, clays and gundogs do we get constant sniping? - no!

 

I'm going to finish off by asking if you were me where would you put further investment of time and money?

 

Albertj

TO BE HONEST Albert i dont compete because for one i have no interest in showing dogs but if i do bring dogs i they would be entered in the working class to support the show but that wont be happing again from you told me the money goes straight in to seamus an matts pocket (not your excact words ) iv been going since early 80s when it was at clandeboy ps i think you do a first class job for a family day out an i couldnt think of anything to improve it Edited March 21, 2012 by Sorley Boys clan

[lurcher330 2,297]

I think they days of the proper working lurcher are finished at your shows. Albert with all the talk of breed standard There is no breed standard with 3or 4 dogs in the mix .Are you intending to push the working lurcher men out while pomoting the race and show click ? I will be happy to spend my money else where if this is the case

When Rose Judge the whippets in Shanes Castle the champion whippet was the same whippet that won the working class,which was a working whippet

 

Graham you protest to much, but I know where your coming from....

Not protesting John,just proving a point,the bitch was Simons whippet bitch

 

which one was that Graham, brindle

Yeah John

[AlbertJ 569]

Do you not have any allegations to make for 10, 20 or even 30 years ago? Because this year is our 34 year and I will celebrate my 50th Fair at Shanes Castle.

 

For all that time we have put on successful shows for terriers and lurchers. The clubs run the shows I have really only ever financed them until just over year and half ago when I came on this forum to speak for myself because a 'well meaning colleague' was misquoting me when he was defending our events. I make suggestions but the ultimate decision on who is invited to judge is their's. Now the judges for Ballywalter have been selected and that is that for this year. It is everyone's choice whether they want to compete or not.

 

Since I got into consructive discussion with many people on the forum we have had some excellent suggestions and we have made massive innovations in terms of prize structures and competitions and given the terrier & lurcher people a central role in our promotions and good locations WITHIN our fairs.

 

When we make innovations and give extra prizes within the angling, clays and gundogs do we get constant sniping? - no!

 

I'm going to finish off by asking if you were me where would you put further investment of time and money?

 

Albertj

TO BE HONEST Albert i dont compete because for one i have no interest in showing dogs but if i do bring dogs i they would be entered in the working class to support the show but that wont be happing again from you told me the money goes straight in to seamus an matts pocket (not your excact words ) iv been going since early 80s when it was at clandeboy ps i think you do a first class job for a family day out an i couldnt think of anything to improve it

 

Seamus no longer is involved in our shows he retired last year. Matt & the team make a donation to a charity from whatever is collected and the rest goes to a club they have set up. Shane Lee and the Roscrea Club are running both show and racing at Birr for club funds.

 

Albertj

[Guest ladyjane]

I think they days of the proper working lurcher are finished at your shows. Albert with all the talk of breed standard There is no breed standard with 3or 4 dogs in the mix .Are you intending to push the working lurcher men out while pomoting the race and show click ? I will be happy to spend my money else where if this is the case

When Rose Judge the whippets in Shanes Castle the champion whippet was the same whippet that won the working class,which was a working whippet

 

Graham you protest to much, but I know where your coming from....

Not protesting John,just proving a point,the bitch was Simons whippet bitch

 

which one was that Graham, brindle

Yeah John

 

 

Graham Meek won Best Whippet with his black and white dog, which he does work. Simon won best pup with his brindle.

[kegs 40]

on the subject of the clubs albert as you know you have sort of won me round abit as you do make a big effort which cant be said for all the rest but i think until you get rid of all the members of matlc you wont reach your goal,theres plenty of lads from the north that you could get to do a great job with new blood and ideas as they say time to releave the old guard.i know you said you were family friends but its business as far as the judges go,i say give them their chance and let them do their best. maybe i will see you there for the craic. good luck

[Leeview 787]

Now a challenge for you - you have shot your mouth on many occasions so now why not do it under your own name instead of hiding behind an alias? AND lets know on what authority you criticise anything? What have you won with your dogs in racing or showing - if so where and when? Have you ever judged - if so where and when ? Better still let's see photo's of your 'working dogs' to see what you think is the sort of lurcher that we should select judges to give top awards to ? Tell us what you would want a judge to look for in a 'working dog'?

 

 

 

The name Leeview comes from a well known established greyhound kennel, my connections with them is having owned and coursed a dog from their kennel. My name is Sean M.FitzGerald always has been and always will be, have had lurchers since the mid 50's when I was 7yrs old and have had them ever since and now turned 60 last year. I've known Seamus Irwin from the 90's(were nt you supposed to come over to England with him around that time to see how lurcher shows were run over here? SI. awsked me for some passes for you both) When I was organising the lurcher side of things at Chatsworth. I also appeared on coneycatcher2 working in the dales and also the Lurchermania video

Have I ever judged-if so where and when? Well yes I have judged a good few shows from Scotland right down to the south coast of England and east to west as well, as for Ireland twice at Clonshire before the fight put an end to that show, I've been back since and judged for the Limerick County Foxhounds, these 3 shows spanning 18yrs, then I also judged at Downpatrick in the north, anyone old enough to recall myself and Owen Kane from Scotland because there was only 10 classes to judge we decided that we should both judge all the dogs starting from opposite ends of the line and then picking the winners between us, we picked Sean McClusker for B.i.S Oh and neither judge knew one person prior to judging that show, another thing that stood out was only 2 women came into the rings and it transpired they were holding the dogs while their husbands showed another dog in the same class.

the bitch in my avatar is one of my present workers but dont worry I'll put others up at the weekend when Im back home

 

"to see what you think is the sort of lurcher that we should select judges to give top awards to" what an absolutely ridiculous statement to make how can any judge tell you what hes going to give a top award too? Of course thats if the judge is judging the dogs and not his mate thats holding it? Make no mistake I like my collie X's they do what I want workwise, over the years I've put SalukiXs up on more than one occasion,judged the first ever Bullx championship, a cracking WheatenX at Clonshire, Sean McCluskers DhxGh XfoxhoundxGh, I could go on but my point is you never go into the ring kennel blind you judge what is put in front of you and pick out what you would like to have a day out watching it work

Hope that this suffices but please ask away if it does nt

Y.I.S Leeview

 

 

Sean,

 

Fair play to you for coming back on under your own name. I admire a man who steps up to the mark on a challenge.

 

" I've known Seamus Irwin from the 90's(were nt you supposed to come over to England with him around that time to see how lurcher shows were run over here?

 

That is not the case - I normally leave the clubs running the events to decide on how they run them and Seamus had been running the Terrier & Lurcher show at the fair since 1981 until we changed organisers last year.

Could it of been John Beech then?

Have I ever judged-if so where and when? "Well yes I have judged a good few shows from Scotland right down to the south coast of England and east to west as well, as for Ireland twice at Clonshire before the fight put an end to that show, I've been back since and judged for the Limerick County Foxhounds, these 3 shows spanning 18yrs, then I also judged at Downpatrick in the north" .

 

Having this experience of judging you must know that some of the suggestions on the forum that we should choose our judges solely on the basis of someone claiming that they worked their dogs is simply not tenable. You must know that to judge any animal you must have a good idea of your ideal conformation, movement and any breed specifics that you think are relevant plus obviously test for balance and soundness and of course assess condition and how the dog is presented. Finally if you consider it to be the sort of dog that could work well although this is the most subjective criterion of all. How best to do this (1) to attend shows and see what dogs are being put up by a variety of judges (2) to enter shows to test your judgement of your own dogs, and finally to get judging experience actually going over a dog and its structure.

Anyone claiming to work their dogs when they dont would soon be found out IMHO

1"to attend shows and see what dogs are being put up by a variety of judges" COULD NOT THINK OF A WORSE CASE SCENARIO THAN PICKING WHAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS PICKED OUT AT A SHOW

2"to attend shows to test your judgement of your own dogs" That could lead to kennel blindness on another judges opinion

"and finally to get judging experience actually going over a dog and its structure" in a child handlers class perhaps or you could go out and actually watch a dog working in the field and understand what and why its doing somethingand what results not just flying from A to B at breakneck speed

My ownership of dogs spans a greater period than your own and I have trained, worked and shown with success at all levels. Including getting third with a working dog in the Open Bitch class at Crufts with several top English Show Champions standing behind me. . This was actually a shooting dog who won tests and ran in trials. I didn't just claim I worked her. Quite uniquely I also had another bitch which won at ch Show level, wom tests, a novice Firld Trial and had several Open Trial awards against the top labradors in Ireland and on the one occasion when I accepted a challenge to enter an obedience competition she was 3rd in a class of 18 dogs. I have also trained GSDs and Dobes for man work (and showed both) and trained and showed setters and a pointer. I have judged all the gundog breeds at Championship show level and quite a few other breeds at Open Show level and I have judged working tests and field trials. So I think I would know at least as much as you about working, training and judging dogs.

Impressive You like your gundogs and feel qualified to judge and give your opinions on other owners gundogs

Have you judged Toy breeds? and how would you feel if a Toy breed specialist judge an Open Field Trial :boogy: one that had done a lot of winning in Toy breeds

 

Rightly or wrongly I felt that your criticism of Rose was more the continuation of the virtual stream of criticism that you have levelled at our events than a real criticism of her. And bearing in mind your response I am even more convinced of this because you obviously do know what a good dog should look like and you know what is necessary to be a good judge.

 

I thought you were one of the fraternity that felt that judges should put up marked dogs over better specimens because it is a 'working dog show'. Hence my comment about the sort of dogs you would wish to be put up at our shows. I now understand that you cannot really take that point of view.

 

 

 

"I could go on but my point is you never go into the ring kennel blind you judge what is put in front of you and pick out what you would like to have a day out watching it work"

 

 

My sentiments entirely!

 

As I said fair play to you for coming back under your own name and in fact by giving your 'dog cv' you have in fact actually made most of the points about judging that I was trying to make and you fully meet the ideal qualifications that I had laid out to look for in our judges i.e have had success with your dogs; judging experience and lastly but not most importantly 'work your dogs'.

 

For some reason you have decided to attack virtually every initiative that we take for our events. I don't mind anyone speaking their mind, indeed I prefer frankness but I abhor someone attacking an innocent third party to 'get at' me. That's why I objected most strongly over your post.

 

I also don't bear grudges so if you are prepared to put your judging experience to good use I am happy to suggest you to our organising clubs in order that you can bring your undoubted expertise to one of our events!

 

Albertj

Y.I.S Leeview

Highlighted to answer relevant points thats all

[AlbertJ 569]

Well you are consistent anyway in continuing your criticism but at least this time it is mainly against me and not someone 'caught in the crossfire' of what appears to be a rather obsessive campaign of criticism against our shows.

 

I am going to answer some of your more definitive but clearly misguided and unsustainable points :

 

1. As far as it is relevant John Beach was the land agent of Shanes. He was friendly with the guy who ran Chatsworth and would not have needed you to get him tickets.

 

2."Anyone claiming to work their dogs when they dont would soon be found out IMHO". How would it be found out at a show that they didn't work their dogs - you have only to see the spats on this forum about whether people work their dogs or not or how well ? But I suppose you would claim to be able to look at a guy and say right away whether he worked his dogs - and if you thought he did to say he would make a good judge! I think I would be rather better at watching a person judge and realise he had never judged before and didn't have a clue!

 

3."to attend shows and see what dogs are being put up by a variety of judges" COULD NOT THINK OF A WORSE CASE SCENARIO THAN PICKING WHAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS PICKED OUT AT A SHOW. Did you not note that I said a 'Variety of judges' not one ! I wasn't suggesting that an aspiring judge picked out what someone else had picked but through getting experience of shows to support his or her working experience acquired an eye for what constituted a good dog in terms of conformation. I suppose you think some 'who works their dogs' can wander into a show perhaps for the first time and know what to look for?

 

4. I said ' to attend shows to test your judgement of your own dogs. You Said ' That could lead to kennel blindness on another judges opinion'. It is the exactly the opposite - if a guy who thinks his dogs are the best because ' he works them' shows them and finds a variety of judges don't like them he is likely to come to realise what is generally accepted as a 'good one'. If he simply claims they are the best without testing that claim then that is kennel blindness.

 

5."and finally to get judging experience actually going over a dog and its structure" I did not claim that such judging experience could be had in a children's class where the handler not the dog is judged - perhaps that where you got your experience!

 

6 ".Impressive "- Yes my training, showing and juding experience would appear to be slightly more impressive than your own record of judging and training in our comparitive chosen fields! "You like your gundogs and feel qualified to judge and give your opinions on other owners gundogs". I have not just claimed I work my dogs I have proven it in working competition and I have judged widely a variety of breeds in both work and shows. I feel qualified to judge gundogs because (1) as a graduate biologist I have a very good idea of structure and conformation (2) I have had success at the highest level in shows since I was 11 yo with a variety of breeds of dog (3) I have judged successfully and drawn very large entries for several years and I have trained and worked a variety of dogs from Corgis for ratting, GSD and Dobe's for manwork and several breeds of gundogs for shooting, tests and trials. The working bit aids my show judging but is not the most important bit of my experience for judging at a show because you simply cannot judge how good a worker a dog is by looking at it. Also I have taken working dogs into the ring and had good results with them under show judges and if I get beaten I don't bleat about it was the wrong sort of judge. And when I take a pure bred working dog into a show ring I don't expect its working ability to be part of the judges deliberations because a show is conformation based. If you or anyone else could assess a dog or any animal's working ability simply by looking at it you would be in huge demand round the race tracks and horse sales!

 

7. I have judged Toy breeds when they have come under me in AV classes or BIS. And this is where your analogy goes really off the scale "Have you judged Toy breeds? and how would you feel if a Toy breed specialist judge an Open Field Trial'. Once again you make my point working and show are two different disciplnes. I would not ask a toy show judge to judge a Field Trial OR a FT judge to judge Toy breeds! You appear to be saying that someone who has trained a dog for shooting should be able to judge all breeds at shows!

 

8.Now having replied to some of your bizarre analogies - let me leave you with one of my own. In a soccer crowd at a cup final virtually all of the fans would express an interest and knowledge of the game. Most of them would claim 'to have played a bit' and some might still be good club players with medals to prove it. Now if the referee was to become ill - would you suggest the authorities would go into the crowd and pluck out a 'working footballer' to take over ? Do they hell they replace him with a qualified replacement.

 

Now it is very clear from your posts on any thread that our events or I appear on that you don't like our shows, and you don't like me and I have to say the feeling is becoming quite mutual. But here in Ireland I have genuinely tried to improve the status of our terrier, lurcher and whippet events within our fairs with better prize structures, good locations within the main fair and an involvement in our PR and marketing. I have taken on board genuibe criticism from enthusiasts here about what they would want and while my conversations with people on this forum may have been ribust they have rarely been personal and if we had a spat it was over and forgotten, Whereas all you have done is snipe from the sidelines on an extremely vehement attack on our innovations, events and me. Can I suggest rather than keeping trying to stir the pot here in Ireland , you let me get on with making positive improvements to our events and helping other similar events and if you don't have anything positive to contribute you concentrate on more positive things in England!

 

AlbertJ

[Irish Lurcher 1,013]

Turning into a very boring thread, someone please lock it...

[Dazzam 239]

It's a total disgrace the torrent of abuse Rose has had to take here on this thread. Some lurcher folk need to go and take a good look in the mirror. It's the same names cropping up time after time and most of them don't have a set of swingers to put their real names to any of their posts and the laughable thing about it is many of them claim to work lurchers. Wise up the lot of you. This thread ought to be deleted never mind locked.

 

Darren

Edited March 22, 2012 by Dazzam

[Leeview 787]

1. As far as it is relevant John Beach was the land agent of Shanes. He was friendly with the guy who ran Chatsworth and would not have needed you to get him tickets.

Who mentioned Chatsworth? it was infact the CLA at Harewood House

 

2."Anyone claiming to work their dogs when they dont would soon be found out IMHO". How would it be found out at a show that they didn't work their dogs - you have only to see the spats on this forum about whether people work their dogs or not or how well ? But I suppose you would claim to be able to look at a guy and say right away whether he worked his dogs - and if you thought he did to say he would make a good judge! I think I would be rather better at watching a person judge and realise he had never judged before and didn't have a clue!

It might not be revealed at the show that the person was lying about working his dogs but its funny how it comes out in time Did nt this happen with a terrier judge you had at the 5 nations?

 

3."to attend shows and see what dogs are being put up by a variety of judges" COULD NOT THINK OF A WORSE CASE SCENARIO THAN PICKING WHAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS PICKED OUT AT A SHOW. Did you not note that I said a 'Variety of judges' not one ! I wasn't suggesting that an aspiring judge picked out what someone else had picked but through getting experience of shows to support his or her working experience acquired an eye for what constituted a good dog in terms of conformation. I suppose you think some 'who works their dogs' can wander into a show perhaps for the first time and know what to look for?

Is my quote word perfect of what you wrote? and where have I said one judge? "getting experience of shows to support his or her working experience" if thats the case I doubt they're ready for judging

If4. I said ' to attend shows to test your judgement of your own dogs. You Said ' That could lead to kennel blindness on another judges opinion'. It is the exactly the opposite - if a guy who thinks his dogs are the best because ' he works them' shows them and finds a variety of judges don't like them he is likely to come to realise what is generally accepted as a 'good one'. If he simply claims they are the best without testing that claim then that is kennel blindness.

But you keep stating you can tell a working dog in the ring he and many others may know its the best worker having been out with him and the dog, brilliant worker does nt mean its a good looker far from it hence what I said to your challenge about "the dog I would like to have a day out with"

 

5."and finally to get judging experience actually going over a dog and its structure" I did not claim that such judging experience could be had in a children's class where the handler not the dog is judged - perhaps that where you got your experience!

NEVER EVER JUDGED A CHILD HANDLER CLASS on principal if Im judging Im there to judge dogs not children

 

6 ".Impressive "- Yes my training, showing and juding experience would appear to be slightly more impressive than your own record of judging and training in our comparitive chosen fields! "You like your gundogs and feel qualified to judge and give your opinions on other owners gundogs". I have not just claimed I work my dogs I have proven it in working competition and I have judged widely a variety of breeds in both work and shows. I feel qualified to judge gundogs because (1) as a graduate biologist I have a very good idea of structure and conformation (2) I have had success at the highest level in shows since I was 11 yo with a variety of breeds of dog (3) I have judged successfully and drawn very large entries for several years and I have trained and worked a variety of dogs from Corgis for ratting, GSD and Dobe's for manwork and several breeds of gundogs for shooting, tests and trials. The working bit aids my show judging but is not the most important bit of my experience for judging at a show because you simply cannot judge how good a worker a dog is by looking at it. Also I have taken working dogs into the ring and had good results with them under show judges and if I get beaten I don't bleat about it was the wrong sort of judge. And when I take a pure bred working dog into a show ring I don't expect its working ability to be part of the judges deliberations because a show is conformation based. If you or anyone else could assess a dog or any animal's working ability simply by looking at it you would be in huge demand round the race tracks and horse sales!

 

Have you ever watched hounds being judged? they judge without touching the hounds and these hounds are bred for work (not showing) from workers

 

7. I have judged Toy breeds when they have come under me in AV classes or BIS. And this is where your analogy goes really off the scale "Have you judged Toy breeds? and how would you feel if a Toy breed specialist judge an Open Field Trial'. Once again you make my point working and show are two different disciplnes. I would not ask a toy show judge to judge a Field Trial OR a FT judge to judge Toy breeds! You appear to be saying that someone who has trained a dog for shooting should be able to judge all breeds at shows!

 

No completely misunderstood or ducked the question? I refered to have you ever judged a TOY breed giving BOB? What would your gundog associates make of a toy bred specialist judging their undogs on the basis of the judge has done a lot of winning in another breed so must know what a good dog should be like?

 

8.Now having replied to some of your bizarre analogies - let me leave you with one of my own. In a soccer crowd at a cup final virtually all of the fans would express an interest and knowledge of the game. Most of them would claim 'to have played a bit' and some might still be good club players with medals to prove it. Now if the referee was to become ill - would you suggest the authorities would go into the crowd and pluck out a 'working footballer' to take over ? Do they hell they replace him with a qualified replacement.

Excellent point there AJ now we're getting close,and I thik you've answered the question

THEY GET SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY' RE DOING AND NOT SOMEONE IN THE CROWD

 

Now it is very clear from your posts on any thread that our events or I appear on that you don't like our shows, and you don't like me and I have to say the feeling is becoming quite mutual. But here in Ireland I have genuinely tried to improve the status of our terrier, lurcher and whippet events within our fairs with better prize structures, good locations within the main fair and an involvement in our PR and marketing. I have taken on board genuibe criticism from enthusiasts here about what they would want and while my conversations with people on this forum may have been ribust they have rarely been personal and if we had a spat it was over and forgotten, Whereas all you have done is snipe from the sidelines on an extremely vehement attack on our innovations, events and me. Can I suggest rather than keeping trying to stir the pot here in Ireland , you let me get on with making positive improvements to our events and helping other similar events and if you don't have anything positive to contribute you concentrate on more positive things in England!

 

AJ your trying to run lurcher shows at your shows through many years of experience organising and running shows from local hunt shows to massive game fairs,your shows are way behind what has been run in the UK, criticism and problems are par for the course and unless your too thick skinned to take it in so be it you carry on doing it how you want

And this will definately not be my last post you can rest assured n that

Y.I.S Leeview