Little sweet heart

[canis lupus 1]

this thread has now frassled my brain.

[inan 841]

this thread has now frassled my brain.

A Wolf in Ferrets clothing eh?

[stubby 175]

no disrespect here droid, but your a newish member to the forum, slating some more experienced ferreters on their ferret keeping abilities and breeding seasons, and their sex (magwitch a she )

we seem to have an increasing amount of ferret keepers, that are more pet owners, rather than ferreters/rabbiters, Im not knocking them, I was one Infact myself once, but you seem to have this reason for saying its bad to breed silvers, and that "WE" dont know or understand generics, prehaps you would care to enlightens us all with a post on your views, rather than just keep leaving knocking posts

 

I'm not knocking ferreters, I'm knocking those who breed without fully understanding the genetic basis of that breeding. So read my posts properly, stubby.

 

That's got bugger all to do with hunting.

 

 

For the record: silvers/DEWs have, within their genetic makeup, a 'lethal' gene. This gene is somerwhat variable, in other words it doesn't always exert an effect, and the effect it exerts can be variable, up to and including reabsorbtion of the foetus.

 

The gene is basically recessive, needing a version from both the hob and the jill to have it's more harmful effects. This means that it can 'jump' generations. Just because no effect has been seen for 2 or 3 generations doesn't mean that the gene has gone, just that the breeder has been lucky.

 

The ONLY way of getting rid of this gene from the British ferret populations is to avoid breeding from 'lines' that have produced Silvers or DEW's

 

That's my view.

 

 

This applies to ferrets bred for ferreting, pets, shows or fur coats.

The genetics couldn't give a toss, and neither could I.

 

ok, so I took your advice and started a few basic searches, via the net on this lethal gene and visited a few different sites and forums, now Im no biolgist so I dont know all the correct terms etc, but I'll try and put down what I found

 

the write up on this lethal gene started in norway, where they cant ferret/rabbit, but only keep as pets,

 

most norwiegian keepers are crying out for unusal colours, silvers being one of them

 

most rescue centre run prize days shows etc, showing "silvers" thus increasing the demand for more silvers

 

pet ferrets are regarded as getting more illnessess than working ferrets

 

the lethal gene is known to affect lighter coloured ferrets, it dosent name silvers as being the only carrier

 

the gene can only be detected via testing of each individual ferret,

 

pet owners are more likely to search for unusal coloured ferts(ie silvers)

 

now doing a search of our own archives, I cant find any members posting concerns that they have bred ferrets that are either deaf or blind, maybe a dead kitt, here or there, and a small litter, which I gather "can be" another factor, but this could cover any animal thats bred without the breeders saying its a lethal gene

 

there are however plenty of keepers that advise not to breed silver to silver, and quite a few that will breed silver to silver, and claim no ill effect too,

 

most ferreters/workers dont give a hoot on the colour, its more the working capabilities of the ferret that counts, so were not intentionally trying to breed "silvers" but if they happen to be our best workers, then they get used to breed from, in most case's to an outcross,

 

yet there must be more pet ferret keepers that want a ferret of each colour in there court

 

watching the news tonight, I see blue tongue in sheep, has turned up on our shores, and they are now issuing vacine's to farmers, as before this, it was only found abroad, could the same be said for this lethal gene?, just because its found in norway, has it been found in britain (I could'ent find this out)

and if it has been found, how do we not know it was not an isolated case, as unless the check EVERY ferret they cant know for sure, or are people just jumping on the norwiegian band wagon, and telling everyone they are bad people for breeding silvers

 

looking at all the facts I have found today, wont Im affraid change my views on silvers and the keeping or breeding of them, I always keep records of parentage and never breed silver to silver, but thats just my views, if people ask for advice, thats the advice I will give, others will give different,

 

and I can understand that we do get quite a few new members that are purely "pet ferret" keepers, but what they must understand in return, is that this is "the hunting life" forum, with a ferret section, there is bound to be things said regarding ferrets that makes them horrified and think were all evil gits,

but if this horrifies them that much, maybe they should return to the pet forums,

 

if however they want to leave advice for someone posting a question, be it ferret husbandry or the breeding of silvers/BEW's/DEW's Im quite happy for them to advise "dont do it" because, but the minute they start slatting our members for doing what we are doing, they will be deleated

if anyone dos'ent agree with that, I suggest they take it up with the admin...

[Kay 3,709]

and I can understand that we do get quite a few new members that are purely "pet ferret" keepers, but what they must understand in return, is that this is "the hunting life" forum, with a ferret section, there is bound to be things said regarding ferrets that makes them horrified and think were all evil gits,

but if this horrifies them that much, maybe they should return to the pet forums,

 

Well said

[gnipper 5,966]

Nice way of saing F Off Bunny Hugger

[droid 11]

I'm not sure what problems stubby has with my posts.

 

I have made no distinction between 'pet' ferret owners, or 'working' ferret owners, because as I said earlier, the facts remain the same, the genetics doesn't distinguish between reasons for breeding.

 

One thing that many people have difficulty in grasping with genetics, is that it is based on chance. You cannot say (and I haven't) that EVERY TIME you breed from a Silver/DEW you will get problems. But there is a finite chance of it, and that chance is greater than for other colours, save those that are carriers of the Waardenberg's gene(s).

 

If you ain't convinced, that's your choice. I don't give a stuff, because it doesn't affect me one iota. But don't accuse me of things I haven't done. If I had decided to criticise - 'slat' - members, they wouldn't be left in any doubt that I had done it.

[droid 11]

Nice way of saing F Off Bunny Hugger

 

So why piss about with a half-page essay, eh?

 

Bunny-hugger.....don't think so kid.....

[Guest Magwitch]

I'm not sure what problems stubby has with my posts.

 

I have made no distinction between 'pet' ferret owners, or 'working' ferret owners, because as I said earlier, the facts remain the same, the genetics doesn't distinguish between reasons for breeding.

 

One thing that many people have difficulty in grasping with genetics, is that it is based on chance. You cannot say (and I haven't) that EVERY TIME you breed from a Silver/DEW you will get problems. But there is a finite chance of it, and that chance is greater than for other colours, save those that are carriers of the Waardenberg's gene(s).

 

If you ain't convinced, that's your choice. I don't give a stuff, because it doesn't affect me one iota. But don't accuse me of things I haven't done. If I had decided to criticise - 'slat' - members, they wouldn't be left in any doubt that I had done it.

You did give me the finger though thats not nice............

[droid 11]

Awwwww....but I did it with a grin.....

[Funfuret 1]

Nice way of saing F Off Bunny Hugger

 

The only bunny hugger in my house is old Gimli. Does anyone else's ferret sleep with dead bunnies

Edited May 7, 2008 by Funfuret

[inan 841]

I'm not sure what problems stubby has with my posts.

 

I have made no distinction between 'pet' ferret owners, or 'working' ferret owners, because as I said earlier, the facts remain the same, the genetics doesn't distinguish between reasons for breeding.

 

One thing that many people have difficulty in grasping with genetics, is that it is based on chance. You cannot say (and I haven't) that EVERY TIME you breed from a Silver/DEW you will get problems. But there is a finite chance of it, and that chance is greater than for other colours, save those that are carriers of the Waardenberg's gene(s).

 

If you ain't convinced, that's your choice. I don't give a stuff, because it doesn't affect me one iota. But don't accuse me of things I haven't done. If I had decided to criticise - 'slat' - members, they wouldn't be left in any doubt that I had done it.

You did give me the finger though thats not nice............

Especially if you have very big fingers!

[canis lupus 1]

this thread has now frassled my brain.

A Wolf in Ferrets clothing eh?

 

LOL

 

no, more like a Fox in wolves clothing

[stubby 175]

Breeding Silvers?

 

That's bright....

 

 

 

I'm not knocking ferreters, I'm knocking those who breed without fully understanding the genetic basis of that breeding. So read my posts properly, stubby.

 

That's got bugger all to do with hunting.

 

 

For the record: silvers/DEWs have, within their genetic makeup, a 'lethal' gene. This gene is somerwhat variable, in other words it doesn't always exert an effect, and the effect it exerts can be variable, up to and including reabsorbtion of the foetus.

 

The gene is basically recessive, needing a version from both the hob and the jill to have it's more harmful effects. This means that it can 'jump' generations. Just because no effect has been seen for 2 or 3 generations doesn't mean that the gene has gone, just that the breeder has been lucky.

 

The ONLY way of getting rid of this gene from the British ferret populations is to avoid breeding from 'lines' that have produced Silvers or DEW's

 

That's my view.

 

 

This applies to ferrets bred for ferreting, pets, shows or fur coats.

The genetics couldn't give a toss, and neither could I.

 

 

I'm not sure what problems stubby has with my posts.

 

I have made no distinction between 'pet' ferret owners, or 'working' ferret owners, because as I said earlier, the facts remain the same, the genetics doesn't distinguish between reasons for breeding.

 

One thing that many people have difficulty in grasping with genetics, is that it is based on chance. You cannot say (and I haven't) that EVERY TIME you breed from a Silver/DEW you will get problems. But there is a finite chance of it, and that chance is greater than for other colours, save those that are carriers of the Waardenberg's gene(s).

 

If you ain't convinced, that's your choice. I don't give a stuff, because it doesn't affect me one iota. But don't accuse me of things I haven't done. If I had decided to criticise - 'slat' - members, they wouldn't be left in any doubt that I had done it.

 

so lets see, this post was started, not concerning "silvers", but having a joke about one of magwitch's jill's turning a little nippy, it seemed, only on my post saying that they were silvers, did you leave your first post, which prompted other breeders/keepers with silvers to ask the question "why the remark had been made", so therefore starting the big silver debate

 

it was me not you that is putting the pet and workers distinction into it, by saying pet owners are more likely to go for colours, than those of us that ferret and therefore just want a good worker,

 

as you probably know, some dogs and cats come with a pedigree, I have never seen one for ferrets, some keepers may keep records, but I bet its not many, therefore in saying that the gene can skip a few generations and come and bite you on the bum, is like saying, dont ever breed any ferret irespective of colour or markings, because somewhere down the line it could have silver in their gene's and untill you pair/breed and two recessives come together, you would'ent know

 

and if you did'nt give one iota, why post the first comment in the first place

[Funfuret 1]

it was me not you that is putting the pet and workers distinction into it, by saying pet owners are more likely to go for colours, than those of us that ferret and therefore just want a good worker,

 

I think you are missing out another category of ferret owner, Stubby, the serious show owner. Those who take loads of ferrets to loads of shows in the hope of coming back with lots of pots. Then if their ferret wins they claim that their offspring come from some sort of fancy champ and charge fancy prices IMO a lot of the demand for fancy colours is created by the show circuit. Just like Crufts popularises different breeds of dog and leads to breeding for extreme and often unhealthy traits

Edited May 7, 2008 by Funfuret

[inan 841]

it was me not you that is putting the pet and workers distinction into it, by saying pet owners are more likely to go for colours, than those of us that ferret and therefore just want a good worker,

 

I think you are missing out another category of ferret owner, Stubby, the serious show owner. Those who take loads of ferrets to loads of shows in the hope of coming back with lots of pots. Then if their ferret wins they claim that their offspring come some sort of fancy champ and charge fancy prices IMO a lot of the demand for fancy colours is created by the show circuit. Just like Crufts popularises different breeds of dog and leads to breeding for extreme and often unhealthy traits

Stubby's got loads of Rosettes,he buys them wholesale.