WILF 52,874 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) 52 minutes ago, mC HULL said: The aim in afghanistan was to invade and install a friendly democracy lol failed miserably hands tied wow best fighting machine ever apparently And that aim was achieved but only lasted with a massive military presence of invading forces. It was also to destroy Al Qaeda and that was also achieved. Quote Taliban in power before and after thats a loss no doubt won battles but lost the war As I said, unless you take control and colonise then left to their own devices anything can happen. Quote Iraq was the same sort of worked get oil but the country is ruined badly Again, as I said…..I don’t think you are quiet grasping my whole “not wins in the sense we think of it” angle Quote You can't just bomb somewhere then say we eon 4 weeks later while there sending missiles thenext ten years mate lol And who in Afghanistan and Iraq are sending missiles anymore or even have the capability to do it? Quote All the yanks are is alot noise bit of action then jack like a cur dog when it gets drawn out and rough nations see that now So the answer is to colonise every place they go to war yes ? Like, with Germany first and foremost we were dealing with people who are culturally exactly like us so we sort of knew what we were getting anyway……even so, Germany still wasn’t allowed to have a proper Army befitting its size for eighty years and was only uncolonised in the 1990s…..that’s 45 years after the end of the war !! With Arabic or Asian or African nations it would mean a harsh ongoing presence, dealing daily with people we don’t fully understand…..Britain was the best nation history has ever seen at doing it but the methods required to do it are just not in the modern lexicon of methodology…..nobody does that anymore ! Edited March 12 by WILF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 18,378 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 15 minutes ago, WILF said: And that aim was achieved but only lasted with a massive military presence of invading forces. It was also to destroy Al Qaeda and that was also achieved. As I said, unless you take control and colonise then left to their own devices anything can happen. Again, as I said…..I don’t think you are quiet grasping my whole “not wins in the sense we think of it” angle And who in Afghanistan and Iraq are sending missiles anymore or even have the capability to do it? So the answer is to colonise every place they go to war yes ? Like, with Germany first and foremost we were dealing with people who are culturally exactly like us so we sort of knew what we were getting anyway……even so, Germany still wasn’t allowed to have a proper Army befitting its size for eighty years and was only uncolonised in the 1990s…..that’s 45 years after the end of the war !! With Arabic or Asian or African nations it would mean a harsh ongoing presence, dealing daily with people we don’t fully understand…..Britain was the best nation history has ever seen at doing it but the methods required to do it are just not in the modern lexicon of methodology…..nobody does that anymore ! Afghanistan didn't have any missiles and I wouldn't say anything was achieved would you mate same taliban before and after Education time for you and me old mentor lol You can drop bombs have the best planes look superb but the game little uns use asymmetric warfare it wins everytime proven against the yanks curs They lost in iraq and Afghanistan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 52,874 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, mC HULL said: Afghanistan didn't have any missiles and I wouldn't say anything was achieved would you mate same taliban before and after Education time for you and me old mentor lol You can drop bombs have the best planes look superb but the game little uns use asymmetric warfare it wins everytime proven against the yanks curs They lost in iraq and Afghanistan If you say so….. So, how do you think they should have gone about it to establish what you would class as a win ? Please, I’d be fascinated to read it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 18,378 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 Just now, WILF said: If you say so….. So, how do you think they should have gone about it to establish what you would class as a win ? Please, I’d be fascinated to read it. You invade Afghanistan taliban in rule girls can't get educated blah blah you install the northern alliance irans pals have elections fight for 20 year Jack tail.tucked run the taliban back in rule Girls no educations blah blah exactly the same before and after that is without a doubt a win for the taliban can't be questioned that dog on the bottom the floor wiped with it for 20 mins then the one liking it on top quits when that wont jack no.different mate How.did they win ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 52,874 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, mC HULL said: You invade Afghanistan taliban in rule girls can't get educated blah blah you install the northern alliance irans pals have elections fight for 20 year Jack tail.tucked run the taliban back in rule Girls no educations blah blah exactly the same before and after that is without a doubt a win for the taliban can't be questioned that dog on the bottom the floor wiped with it for 20 mins then the one liking it on top quits when that wont jack no.different mate How.did they win ? f***ing hell ! lol….I will ask again. In your mind, what would a win have looked like and how would it have been achieved ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 18,378 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 Just now, WILF said: f***ing hell ! lol….I will ask again. In your mind, what would a win have looked like and how would it have been achieved ? The yanks made sure the heroin drought stopped and was no longer banned mate that was achieved You can't win if you dont want to get beat then dont fight thinking you can go to afghanistan or iran and win is comical really now there backing kurds to help fight iran promising land for them hahaha isn't that how we made the mess in Palestine comical.watching it all I think same tricks different decade Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 29,824 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) 17 minutes ago, WILF said: f***ing hell ! lol….I will ask again. In your mind, what would a win have looked like and how would it have been achieved ? I’m surprised to hear we lost in Iraq ? I was in the area for both Gulf Wars and, although I may have been a REMF(), I was near enough to see the smoke and hear the explosions from “Shock & Awe” ! I thought the total subjugation of the Iraqi forces , the removal of Saddam and his Ba’athist government and a change of regime, and Iraq no longer threatening and invading its neighbours would constitute a win ? ”THERE ARE NO AMERICANS IN BAGDAD…..WE ARE WINNING” But evidently I’m mistaken Cheers. Edited March 12 by chartpolski 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bendigo 2,264 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 6 minutes ago, chartpolski said: I’m surprised to hear we lost in Iraq ? I was in the area for both Gulf Wars and, although I may have been a REMF(), I was near enough to see the smoke and hear the explosions from “Shock & Awe” ! I thought the total subjugation of the Iraqi forces , the removal of Saddam and his Ba’athist government and a change of regime, and Iraq no longer threatening and invading its neighbours would constitute a win ? But evidently I’m mistaken Cheers. True. But the actions there helped create Isis....so I sort of agree with MC hull as well. I think you are all arguing about tiny points that in some cases don't have a true answer. Can we ever really win against Islamic extremism? The best I would hope for is being intelligent enough to keep it from our shores..... unfortunately our governments don't seem to agree on that 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 52,874 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 13 minutes ago, mC HULL said: The yanks made sure the heroin drought stopped and was no longer banned mate that was achieved You can't win if you dont want to get beat then dont fight thinking you can go to afghanistan or iran and win is comical really now there backing kurds to help fight iran promising land for them hahaha isn't that how we made the mess in Palestine comical.watching it all I think same tricks different decade If you don’t know, just say “I don’t know” lol Please can you explain further your Palestine reference ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 29,824 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Bendigo said: True. But the actions there helped create Isis....so I sort of agree with MC hull as well. I think you are all arguing about tiny points that in some cases don't have a true answer. Can we ever really win against Islamic extremism? The best I would hope for is being intelligent enough to keep it from our shores..... unfortunately our governments don't seem to agree on that I don’t disagree mate, but to say we lost against Iraq is not only wrong, it’s insulting to the men and women who fought and died. Of course these wars have consequences, and as for Afghanistan, how many times have I mentioned “The Great Game” that has been going on there since the 18th century? The British have tried at least twice, the Russians have tried and the Americans have tried and failed ! Why can’t we learn from the failures oh the past and leave the Afghans to themselves ? It’s been seen as an extremely important bulwark between the west and the east, ( British Empire v Russian Empire), but not so important now. Cheers. Edited March 12 by chartpolski 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 52,874 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 Here’s the thing, from what I can see of it certain cultures are just more predisposed to living in certain ways and doing certain things. The hive mind of the chinky, the base instinct of the African, the warlord nature of the Arab…..then you add a communist party or an Islam or a tribal disagreement into the mix and it’s a natural channel for those type of behaviours. If we (as ordinary civilians) think that simply by sending troops, blowing the shit out them and raising the gaff to the ground for 12 months is going to see them suddenly all donning bowler hats and walking about saying “Pip, pip old chap, let’s have an election and scones for tea time” then we are f***ing deluded ! We damage them enough when they get a bit out of hand, retire back to our respective country’s, see where all the pieces fall and repeat ! You don’t imbed our kind of regimes without being there, all the time, forever ! Thats why sending troops don’t sit well with all of us, we don’t understand these vague geopolitics ideas, we don’t feel any benefit and all we see is coffins come home…..we don’t see “the win” These people don’t directly threaten us……and the reason is, because we level them before they can ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lenmcharristar 10,663 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, mC HULL said: Afghanistan didn't have any missiles and I wouldn't say anything was achieved would you mate same taliban before and after Education time for you and me old mentor lol You can drop bombs have the best planes look superb but the game little uns use asymmetric warfare it wins everytime proven against the yanks curs They lost in iraq and Afghanistan But think of all the thanks from the goats and donkeys not getting ass raped now by them cnuts 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 18,378 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, chartpolski said: I’m surprised to hear we lost in Iraq ? I was in the area for both Gulf Wars and, although I may have been a REMF(), I was near enough to see the smoke and hear the explosions from “Shock & Awe” ! I thought the total subjugation of the Iraqi forces , the removal of Saddam and his Ba’athist government and a change of regime, and Iraq no longer threatening and invading its neighbours would constitute a win ? ”THERE ARE NO AMERICANS IN BAGDAD…..WE ARE WINNING” But evidently I’m mistaken Cheers. I said the sort of won Iraq changed leader get oil still.but ruined the country created worse 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mC HULL 18,378 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, WILF said: If you don’t know, just say “I don’t know” lol Please can you explain further your Palestine reference ? The mess in the middle east right now is the result of the uk doing exactly the same to Arabs to overthrow the ottomans a hu dred years ago as there doing to the kurds right now Help.us beat them will.give you your own land Palestine to the arab fighters then give it to.the Jews been hassle there ever since Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 52,874 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 13 minutes ago, mC HULL said: The mess in the middle east right now is the result of the uk doing exactly the same to Arabs to overthrow the ottomans a hu dred years ago as there doing to the kurds right now Help.us beat them will.give you your own land Palestine to the arab fighters then give it to.the Jews been hassle there ever since So, after the war and being subjected to the biggest industrial killing operation in modern history the Jews come along and say “Nobody wants us (true), we want our own homeland that we can call home and defend, we have an extremely valid historical claim on this particular area of the Middle East” ………what are you going to say to the Jews in 1946 ? No ? We had just spent the last 6 years with a common enemy in the biggest conflagration in human history ?……of course we are foing to be somewhat sympathetic to that request. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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