TOMO 29,176 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 He's just signed a document for Washington...to bring back death penalty 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 51,035 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 1 hour ago, TOMO said: He's just signed a document for Washington...to bring back death penalty I get the logic, I watched a Texas sheriff explain it rather eloquently on a programme years ago……however, I personally wouldn’t be a fan of giving the state power or life and death over its citizens. It MAY be ok in the hands of competent, honest regimes but who has one of those ?, and even it you have a regime that’s not bad there is a chance you are getting something else in 4 years……. Our own government would be executing people for social media posts……an exaggeration I know but it’s an easy hop, skip and jump from one to another ! So state sanctioned death of your own citizens, not for me I’m afraid. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scotty12 4,081 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 Bring it on Tomo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE STIFFMEISTER 17,473 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 15 minutes ago, scotty12 said: Bring it on Tomo Mate where is that from ? You are loosing credibility with these “my mate Dave says that …” statuses ? in what way shape or form are the pharma people gonna face the death penalty in the western world ? what next ? The people behind the Thames water saline plant disaster hung off tower bridge ? behave 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE STIFFMEISTER 17,473 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 50 minutes ago, WILF said: I get the logic, I watched a Texas sheriff explain it rather eloquently on a programme years ago……however, I personally wouldn’t be a fan of giving the state power or life and death over its citizens. It MAY be ok in the hands of competent, honest regimes but who has one of those ?, and even it you have a regime that’s not bad there is a chance you are getting something else in 4 years……. Our own government would be executing people for social media posts……an exaggeration I know but it’s an easy hop, skip and jump from one to another ! So state sanctioned death of your own citizens, not for me I’m afraid. Couldn’t agree less , in this day and age , with the huge amount of proper evidence ala dna , cctv, footage , for example the utter piece of filth who carried out the Southport stabbings , Id go back to hangings on the court house lawn if we could 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 51,035 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 (edited) 3 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said: Couldn’t agree less , in this day and age , with the huge amount of proper evidence ala dna , cctv, footage , for example the utter piece of filth who carried out the Southport stabbings , Id go back to hangings on the court house lawn if we could All based on everyone in authority doing the right things for the right reasons without favour or prejudice brother……hows that worked out ? Nah, you can’t trust these people and certainly not with that amount of power !…… Edited September 26 by WILF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 28,445 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 I’m for the death penalty when it’s beyond ALL doubt, as in the case of the murder of those children, the Moors Murderers, the Wests, etc. Problem is the law as it stands says it must be beyond REASONABLE doubt. It could raise the spectre of two tier murder charges/sentencing, as in a defence lawyer could say “ if you are not going to impose the death penalty, you must have some doubt as to the guilt ! “ It opens a legal can of worms. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 51,035 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 Everyone is forgetting that Blair fundamentally altered the criminal justice system, for decades you have not had the presumption of innocence…..you have to prove you are innocent ! We still all think it’s innocent until proven guilty, it isn’t, they just say it is because that’s a handy myth to keep going….. For me, it’s a no brainer…..how the f**k are you going to trust a police force and a criminal justice system that kept quiet about the mass gang rape of white children for reasons of political expediency and are routinely knocking on peoples doors for social media posts like it’s the most serious thing in the world……is anyone seriously suggesting we should put potentially innocent peoples life in the hands of people like that ? f***ing hell boys, have a think about it ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 28,445 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 1 minute ago, WILF said: Everyone is forgetting that Blair fundamentally altered the criminal justice system, for decades you have not had the presumption of innocence…..you have to prove you are innocent ! We still all think it’s innocent until proven guilty, it isn’t, they just say it is because that’s a handy myth to keep going….. For me, it’s a no brainer…..how the f**k are you going to trust a police force and a criminal justice system that kept quiet about the mass gang rape of white children for reasons of political expediency and are routinely knocking on peoples doors for social media posts like it’s the most serious thing in the world……is anyone seriously suggesting we should put potentially innocent peoples life in the hands of people like that ? f***ing hell boys, have a think about it ! I’ve never believed “innocent until proven guilty “ . If that were true ,logically , no one could be held on remand. If “innocent until proven guilty” were true, a person on remand , who hasn’t been found guilty of a crime, would therefore be an innocent person illegally held ! Of course you can’t let someone charged with a serious crime free to walk the streets, but “innocent until proven guilty” simply doesn’t stand examination! Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 51,035 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 (edited) I’ll give you a tidy example, the lads in the Stephen Lawrence case…… They were found not guilty TWICE !…..but since then a coordinated political and media campaign has seen them hounded relentlessly leading up to the “magical” discovery of a microscopic drop of blood on the collar of a shirt that had been buried at the back of an evidence room for 20 year !!! This lead to a couple of them getting 18 years, in the right circumstances they would be dead and all engineered by the state despite being found not guilty TWICE ! How the f**k are you going to trust the state ? Edited September 26 by WILF 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 51,035 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 2 minutes ago, chartpolski said: I’ve never believed “innocent until proven guilty “ . If that were true ,logically , no one could be held on remand. If “innocent until proven guilty” were true, a person on remand , who hasn’t been found guilty of a crime, would therefore be an innocent person illegally held ! Of course you can’t let someone charged with a serious crime free to walk the streets, but “innocent until proven guilty” simply doesn’t stand examination! Cheers. Exactly that, power of statute takes presidence over presumption of innocence ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 9,691 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 (edited) Police are sometimes 'over zealous' let's say in putting ' evidence' before courts. All organisations have corrupt employees. Jurors can be totally stupid f**k wits. Or they can have an opinion swayed in one direction by a highly competent barrister , or in another way by an incompetent or disinterested barrister. Jurors could enter court determined to find somebody guilty because of existing prejudices or slanted media coverage of the case. Judges can be biassed, or have fallen asleep whilst witnesses are testifying. Some may want to make a name for themselves as 'tough guy' judges It's a flawed system. And at the end of the day, if you take someone's life because they have allegedly committed murder, you are ' guilty' of the same action except the law is your side. I am not against whole life sentences. If somebody serving a whole life sentence is innocent, then tough. It's better than losing your life and there's always the possibility of appeal or fresh evidence being presented. The cost of keeping prisoners alive could be mitigated by meaningful work for prisoners. Studies have shown that murder rates in countries with or without the death sentence are the same. So a deterrent effect is hard to prove. Charts will argue there's a zero to low murder rate in Saudi but you can't compare highly authoritative and structured societies with democratic ' open' societies. So it's a definite no from me. Edited September 26 by jukel123 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greyman 32,332 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 1 hour ago, WILF said: Exactly that, power of statute takes presidence over presumption of innocence ! You can take a daily minor offence ie speeding as a classic example I’ve spent weeks in court fighting everyone I’ve ever had and I am deemed guilty until I can prove otherwise last one I won proved I wasn’t driving I was given 6 points and a £1500 fine for failing to return a form that they had no proof of ever sending I had to go back a further 3 times including a day in crown court lol to get it all squashed no normal person would go to those lengths and just accept there fate I just enjoy being that annoying old cnut 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scotty12 4,081 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 2 hours ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said: Mate where is that from ? You are loosing credibility with these “my mate Dave says that …” statuses ? in what way shape or form are the pharma people gonna face the death penalty in the western world ? what next ? The people behind the Thames water saline plant disaster hung off tower bridge ? behave 2 hours ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said: Mate where is that from ? You are loosing credibility with these “my mate Dave says that …” statuses ? in what way shape or form are the pharma people gonna face the death penalty in the western world ? what next ? The people behind the Thames water saline plant disaster hung off tower bridge ? behave What would you regard as crimes against humanity ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 9,691 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 1 minute ago, scotty12 said: What would you regard as crimes against humanity ? Tik Tok bollox. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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