Pardus 1,609 Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 Just now, jukel123 said: Liverpool supporters had better be prepared for tragedy chanters goading them after the lads death. I'm 100% against the new free speech law masquerading as "hate law". But supporters who tragedy chant should be identified and horse whipped. Insensitive, evil_ minded scumbags. Make your mind up mate, you either want free speech or you don't? Lol 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 9,230 Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 4 minutes ago, Pardus said: Make your mind up mate, you either want free speech or you don't? Lol That's a fair point I reluctantly concede. But there is a difference that some of us can detect. And note I'm not calling for custodial sentence or a criminal record. Just brutal retribution for needlessly and gratuitously causing people great emotional hurt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pardus 1,609 Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 3 minutes ago, jukel123 said: That's a fair point I reluctantly concede. But there is a difference that some of us can detect. And note I'm not calling for custodial sentence or a criminal record. Just brutal retribution for needlessly and gratuitously causing people great emotional hurt. Isn't it subjective? There's no grey areas, we either want free speech or we don't IMO. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 9,230 Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 1 minute ago, Pardus said: Isn't it subjective? There's no grey areas, we either want free speech or we don't IMO. So if you were at a funeral of a loved one and a group of random people totally unconnected with the deceased were chanting insults at the funeral cortege and clapping and laughing when the loved one is being lowered into the earth. That's OK? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pardus 1,609 Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 2 minutes ago, jukel123 said: So if you were at a funeral of a loved one and a group of random people totally unconnected with the deceased were chanting insults at the funeral cortege and clapping and laughing when the loved one is being lowered into the earth. That's OK? Who said it was ok? I'm saying we either want free speech or we don't? Do you think it's ok sharing posts about burning down hotels with asylum seekers inside? As I said, we can't have any sitting on the fence. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 9,230 Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 (edited) YOU said it was OK by arguing that there should be no comeback for tragedy chanting! As for some random woman with time on her hands ranting on the internet about burning people, I couldn't care less. I wouldn't imprison her. She's just a mouth like all the others on the Internet. Why give her the oxygen of publicity and martyr status? The sentence was counter productive and a waste of public money feeding her. You could start a row in an empty house mate. Argue with yourself. I'm out. Edited July 6 by jukel123 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pardus 1,609 Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 (edited) 16 minutes ago, jukel123 said: YOU said it was OK by arguing that there should be no comeback for tragedy chanting! As for some random woman with time on her hands ranting on the internet about burning people, I couldn't careless. I wouldn't imprison her. She's just a mouth like all the others on the Internet. Why give her the oxygen of publicity and martyr status? The sentence was counter productive and a waste of public money feeding her. You could start a row in an empty house mate. Argue with yourself. I'm out. No, I said we either want free speech or we don't. What you or I might offensive, the next person might not and vice versa. Many people might have found her post extremely offensive, you don't get to pick and choose, it doesn't work like that. We have to be consistent, sharing a post about burning down hotels is disgusting in all honesty. Edited July 6 by Pardus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 49,552 Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 14 hours ago, jukel123 said: So if you were at a funeral of a loved one and a group of random people totally unconnected with the deceased were chanting insults at the funeral cortege and clapping and laughing when the loved one is being lowered into the earth. That's OK? I always find posts like this interesting, not directed at you mate because I see it all the time, but why is there this silly habit of making up an absolutely terrible scenario and then using it in a debate ? Everyone is at it now days. Let’s take your post (and as I say, it’s not just you)……we are all chaps of a certain age, when in any of our lifetimes have any of us seen or heard about a group of people turning up at a random funeral and chanting insults at the deceased family ? It’s literally never happened ! The only case I can think of is Micheal Stone at Milltown and he wasn’t exactly chanting insults…..other than that, never ! Football supporters make howling chants, they just do…..always have. Like everything else in the world, you don’t have to join in, you don’t even have to be there and listen to it….you can just leave. f**k me, we ain’t all that fragile now are we ?….i don’t go to pubs, why ?…..because I don’t particularly like them so I choose not to be around it….simple isn’t it. Again, not aimed at you because it’s so common that it’s an easy trap to fall into, but all this “worst case scenario, made up scenario” style of discourse is imho moronic and childish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 27,356 Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 54 minutes ago, WILF said: I always find posts like this interesting, not directed at you mate because I see it all the time, but why is there this silly habit of making up an absolutely terrible scenario and then using it in a debate ? Everyone is at it now days. Let’s take your post (and as I say, it’s not just you)……we are all chaps of a certain age, when in any of our lifetimes have any of us seen or heard about a group of people turning up at a random funeral and chanting insults at the deceased family ? It’s literally never happened ! The only case I can think of is Micheal Stone at Milltown and he wasn’t exactly chanting insults…..other than that, never ! Football supporters make howling chants, they just do…..always have. Like everything else in the world, you don’t have to join in, you don’t even have to be there and listen to it….you can just leave. f**k me, we ain’t all that fragile now are we ?….i don’t go to pubs, why ?…..because I don’t particularly like them so I choose not to be around it….simple isn’t it. Again, not aimed at you because it’s so common that it’s an easy trap to fall into, but all this “worst case scenario, made up scenario” style of discourse is imho moronic and childish. I think it’s what’s known as the “straw man argument” , mate; using a worse scenario to rebut lesser scenario. Cheers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 49,552 Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 24 minutes ago, chartpolski said: I think it’s what’s known as the “straw man argument” , mate; using a worse scenario to rebut lesser scenario. Cheers. Is that what that’s called ?….thank you mate. Does me in, like we all need protected from hysterical made up nonsense instead of just using good old fashioned common sense ! It’s all over the show…..when did this become a common thing ?…..it’s only recent because I don’t remember 40 year ago going out on my BMX and some adult saying “Slow down, what if you loose control and swerve into the road causing a multi vehicle pile up with dozens of casualties ?!!” Folks would have probably just laughed and said “daft prat” if you fell off ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 27,356 Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 2 minutes ago, WILF said: Is that what that’s called ?….thank you mate. Does me in, like we all need protected from hysterical made up nonsense instead of just using good old fashioned common sense ! It’s all over the show…..when did this become a common thing ?…..it’s only recent because I don’t remember 40 year ago going out on my BMX and some adult saying “Slow down, what if you loose control and swerve into the road causing a multi vehicle pile up with dozens of casualties ?!!” Folks would have probably just laughed and said “daft prat” if you fell off ! It’s like “what if” and “ what about” arguments ,although I admit to using them myself at times. The Labour government has been in for a year now, but they and their supporters answer every question with “ the Tory’s……” ! At what point do they start taking responsibility for THEIR actions ? No one takes responsibility anymore, pass the buck, blame someone else seems to be the order of the day ! Cheers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bosun11 537 Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 There was a lurcherman singing at his funeral, and for a brief moment I wondered why, but then I realised the love Wolves fans had for him, and it all made sense.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 49,552 Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 Just now, chartpolski said: It’s like “what if” and “ what about” arguments ,although I admit to using them myself at times. The Labour government has been in for a year now, but they and their supporters answer every question with “ the Tory’s……” ! At what point do they start taking responsibility for THEIR actions ? No one takes responsibility anymore, pass the buck, blame someone else seems to be the order of the day ! Cheers. Well, more to the point what happened to just learning to deal with stuff ? Are we really doing society any favours by trying to protect people from things that are subjective ?……what happened to “it will toughen you up !” No wonder some people say there is a mental health crisis ! As I said, it’s not a dig at Jukel, I just find the whole subject fascinating. We have always had redress for things we don’t like, it’s called “don’t be around it” or if it’s more personal, “a punch in the mouth !” We can do that ourselves, we don’t need to make it a mass movement ! lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bangersanmash 4,845 Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 (edited) Everything has to be a debate. Most feel for his family even though personally we didn't know him. Just the thought of his wife and kids is enough for us to have deep thoughts about our kids and wife. People that turn up at anyone's grave side with disrespectful carry ons are not worth talking about. Unless there dirty b*****ds that have done wrong ie rapists , pedos, But this fella was just like you and I a family man. Football aside. Always got to be a debate on here or ends up turning sour Edited July 7 by Bangersanmash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 49,552 Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 1 minute ago, Bangersanmash said: Everything has to be a debate. Most feel for his family even though personally we didn't know him. Just the thought of his wife and kids is enough for us to have deep thoughts about our kids and wife. People that turn up anyone's grave side with disrespectful carry ons are not worth talking about. Unless there dirty b*****ds that have done wrong ie rapists , pedos, But this fella was just like you and I a family man. Football aside. Always got to be a debate on here or ends up turning sour Let’s be honest, anyone is going to look at this accident and say “That's bloody awful, his poor family” Thats just the go to response for 99% of people. I will just add, nobody is turning up at his or anyone else’s graveside to shout insults…..it’s just a thing that never happens anywhere, ever ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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