How daft is this

[Borr 4,500]

 

 

[comanche 2,799]

On 18/06/2023 at 16:42, neil82 said:

thats been getting the blame up here in north wales for years, not many of them can do joined up thinking just enough to realise that theres not much call for that stuff for raising sheep!, One of my own views is that in some ways our rivers are now too clean, the sheite that used to be in them, human and animal, was the start of the food chain, when the water itself is pretty much sterile where does life start (plants, grazers,predators, bigger predators, man), all this bullshit about our rivers being more polluted than ever is down to clever media manipulation, same as all this net zero bollox.

I had thoughts about our rivers being too clean a few years ago too but have changed my mind based on personal experience  .

I live on the headwaters of a  river. It rises as tiny forest ghylls but by the time it hits the sea it's  the second fastest flowing in England .

 The pollution starts almost at its source .  An estate lake formed from damming one of the forest streams used to be crystal clear but is now an overstocked muddy carp hole .A couple of other carp fisheries also discharge their brown overflow into what used to be streams of pure spring water . There are still wild trout in some streams but not the ones coming out of the carp ponds . 

Then comes the road run- off , storm water from culverts dug to stop new roads and  houses flooding and the      "forgotten" pipes that direct waste water into a local mill pond . The overflow from which looks like an advert for Matey Bubblebath .

So within two or three miles we have silt, oil and detergent . Fish seem to survive in the main channel but not in great numbers and there is a lack of tiddlers and natural food like insects and water shrimp ,caddis lavae etc. 

Forget the big fish   ; it's  the small things which are the real indicators of water quality . Rivers  should team with new life in the Summer .

The minnows,bullheads and stone loach in "my" river are  gone . No longer  can a kid with a fishing rod get a bite from an infant roach or gudgeon virtually every cast . The little ditches and redundent mill race where we caught sticklebacks and that  acted as spawning grounds  for a variety of species  are grey with sediment .Dead! The drainage ditches. Flood meadows and side streams are as important ,possibly more than the main river when it comes to providing spawning places , and these are overlooked or destroyed by those should know better.

Three miles downstream is a sewage plant.   When it rains they can legally discharge untreated sewage into the river on the grounds that the works   can't cope with the volume of wastewater coming through it . Obviously they hope that the flooded river will dilute or at least conceal the the amount of pee,poo and loo paper that has been released into the wild .

A "Legal" release from the sewage works a few years ago rendered   the river downstream completely devoid of  invertebrates as well as killing  fish . Official statements admitted  that nine miles of river had been affected.  In fact dead bass  were found much further down in the tidal reach.

And raw sewage doesn't  just legally  by- pass the system unseen during wild winter storms . A favourite time for release  is after  Summer showers . Something to do with hard ground not soaking up the rainwater and ,you guessed it, overloading the wastewater system.

So spare crap and piss and bathwater gets mixed with a  convenient excess of rainwater and dumped into the river .

Round about which time the rain stops and the river returns to its normal low Summer flow . Thus the shit ,piss and bathwater; plus the road run-off, silt , detergents and other crap stay in the river for a long time . Eventually it hits the tidal stretch.

Like l said ,by  now this river has grown from a few forest rivulets to having  a reputation for being the second fastest  flowing river  in England .

But because it's  tidal in the lower reach ; a lot of what goes down on one tide  comes back up a few hours later to join the next dowflow of new sewage. Then there are the official  warnings not to eat any shellfish from the estuary due to the pollutants they absorb.

And this isn't  an industrial river. To look  at , it presents an ideal rural  image. Yet at high water on the tidal reach ,which stretches 18 miles inland , the water is often full of particles of human waste . 

        Not all the time of course because hopefully a lot of the time the sewage is treated properly but this doesn't mean the water in the outflow is suitable for water life to flourish.

Any one who has seriously kept aquatic animals will know that many species have quite particular needs when it comes to water conditions . They may survive but they may not thrive or breed .   Simply providing "clean" water isn't enough. It has to be the right sort of clean water with the correct mineral content and bacteria ; the sort of stuff filtered out by sewage works . .   Stocking  rivers with attention grabbing species like barbel to replace the dwindling stocks of proper local species used  to be enough to  placate anglers but that game should be played out by now. Schemes like The Avon Roach project are great PR but if a classic river like the Hampshire Avon needs help what real hope is there for the others under the seemingly unaccountable control of Water Authorities.

That's a rant ,sorry .

At least l didn't start on salmon farming.    Big business in complete denial of its huge  environmental impact on wild fish stocks!

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by comanche

[neil82 1,008]

one other point on our local river, this area used to be a major center for tanning sheepskins, plenty of runoff from them and they used to go through salt by the ton daily, a hell of a lot of that ended up in the river but the fish still came upstream every year, had a salmon hatchery for donkeys years running, ended up shutting it down as it did`nt seem to make any difference to returning numbers so they gave up with it.

[Arry 18,606]

Another thing gone is the Silver Eels you would alway catch Eels on every trip. The Elvers used to be masses of them about foot wide endless shoals gone. Also think it might have been young prawns against the banks millions upon millions of them gone. As youngsters we would catch School Bass that had gorged them selfs on Elvers so much they would be hanging out there gills. Maybe the bottom of the food chain has gone.

The other thing is mono filament gill nets set close to the shore they didn't exist when was a youngster. Remember seeing massive drop in sea fish when they came in.

Cheers Arry

[terryd 8,045]

I remember about 30 years ago the chap I worked with in the forestry used to most excited about elvers think he caught them and kept in a tank and some one came to get them for big money. Have to look him up not seen him for years 

as for pollution it’s endless 

This is what is happening to our river just below Haverfordwest....

FB.WATCH

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This is what is happening to our river just below Haverfordwest. There are 2 pipes entering the water course...

 

 

a river up the road 

[Arry 18,606]

The wife sat by the river with a friend on a spit of land they call The island in the centre of town, 10 or 12 mile up stream from the mouth. A seal caught 3 fish and ate them in front of them. She filmed one of the kills being eaten looks like a sea trout to me with reddish  flesh. If one seal is smashing 3 Sea trout in a hour or so and there are about 20 seals in the river I'm told no wonder there are no fish.

But wow betide any body mentioning a cull. Not the lovely cute seals they keep rescuing and releasing. A mate of mine who used to borrow a few fish shot a regular seal, f**k me the who har that followed after it go washed up. Who shot Sammy the seal in the local rag etc. Imo they know its seals but know the public won't have any of it talking about a cull.

Cheers Arry

Edited July 8, 2023 by Arry

[EDDIE B 3,120]

3 hours ago, Arry said:

The wife sat by the river with a friend on a spit of land they call The island in the centre of town, 10 or 12 mile up stream from the mouth. A seal caught 3 fish and ate them in front of them. She filmed one of the kills being eaten looks like a sea trout to me with reddish  flesh. If one seal is smashing 3 Sea trout in a hour or so and there are about 20 seals in the river I'm told no wonder there are no fish.

But wow betide any body mentioning a cull. Not the lovely cute seals they keep rescuing and releasing. A mate of mine who used to borrow a few fish shot a regular seal, f**k me the who har that followed after it go washed up. Who shot Sammy the seal in the local rag etc. Imo they know its seals but know the public won't have any of it talking about a cull.

Cheers Arry

Sounds a bit like the Pine Marten here. No one dare mention a cull.

[wilbur foxhound 480]

On 19/06/2023 at 08:52, neil82 said:

one other point on our local river, this area used to be a major center for tanning sheepskins, plenty of runoff from them and they used to go through salt by the ton daily, a hell of a lot of that ended up in the river but the fish still came upstream every year, had a salmon hatchery for donkeys years running, ended up shutting it down as it did`nt seem to make any difference to returning numbers so they gave up with it.

When the roads are gritted in the winter time all the salt ends up washed into the rivers,wf