Russian man bad

[NEWKID 28,636]

The idea was all of the Ukranians would uprise against their leaders and join the Russian army to become Russian (again) as they had an affinity with Russia that was stronger than to the "new state" of Ukraine, they would welcome the Russians with open arms and the war would be over in few weeks... it would appear that the Ukranians aren't so keen to become part of Russia after all and are prepared to fight for the way of life they are now accustomed to... from that you'd have to argue life as Russians is not as rosy as being part of a western thinking/moving country... whether its a land grab, protection of borders, or a show of strength to Nato it would appear Russia's neighbours aren't so keen on Russia... Crimea was annexed, they've had a good go at Ukraine, where next?

Forget about how the west looks in all of this for a minute, how does it really make Putin look? I'm sure there are many contrasting stories on how the war has gone/is going but I would suggest after a year at it Russia have not achieved what they wanted to in a couple of weeks... 

[paulus 26]

8 minutes ago, NEWKID said:

The idea was all of the Ukranians would uprise against their leaders and join the Russian army to become Russian (again) as they had an affinity with Russia that was stronger than to the "new state" of Ukraine, they would welcome the Russians with open arms and the war would be over in few weeks... it would appear that the Ukranians aren't so keen to become part of Russia after all and are prepared to fight for the way of life they are now accustomed to... from that you'd have to argue life as Russians is not as rosy as being part of a western thinking/moving country... whether its a land grab, protection of borders, or a show of strength to Nato it would appear Russia's neighbours aren't so keen on Russia... Crimea was annexed, they've had a good go at Ukraine, where next?

Forget about how the west looks in all of this for a minute, how does it really make Putin look? I'm sure there are many contrasting stories on how the war has gone/is going but I would suggest after a year at it Russia have not achieved what they wanted to in a couple of weeks... 

They have also not unleashed anywhere near the amount of firepower the could have. If he wanted to take Ukraine at any cost he could have, He has chosen to target infrastructure  to cause pain to the people living there, Again that leads to the thought that he believes the people will overthrow Zaleski. Whether that will work is another matter, You also need to remember that when Zaleski came to power back in 2014 the people in the Donbass region did not accept the vote, He then spent years killing over 14000 of them for not accepting him as the countries leader and calling them Russian invaders, The same with the Crimea, plus Crimea is the only port that Russia has that does not freeze over in the winter and is the home to the black sea fleet.   

[NEWKID 28,636]

1 minute ago, paulus said:

They have also not unleashed anywhere near the amount of firepower the could have. If he wanted to take Ukraine at any cost he could have, He has chosen to target infrastructure  to cause pain to the people living there, Again that leads to the thought that he believes the people will overthrow Zaleski. Whether that will work is another matter, You also need to remember that when Zaleski came to power back in 2014 the people in the Donbass region did not accept the vote, He then spent years killing over 14000 of them for not accepting him as the countries leader and calling them Russian invaders, The same with the Crimea, plus Crimea is the only port that Russia has that does not freeze over in the winter and is the home to the black sea fleet.   

It really depends on what side of the argument you choose to believe, have Russia lost 150k soldiers in the conflict? or is that bullshit propaganda... has Ukraine killed 14k Ukranians or are they Russian? 

I don't believe Putin can just roll into a sovereign country and take parts as his own, his real goal was to over throw the government and force a political change which favoured Russia or reunited with Russia, it would appear that the Ukranians are prepared to fight for their sovereignty even if they do not fully side with Zelensky, I'm sure many Ukranians do not want him as a leader the same as many Brits didn't want Boris or Sunak or Blair or Thatcher etc etc but are they now fighting for the life they have outside of Russian regime... which in my opion tells it's own story...

I confess to not trolling sites to find much outside of mainstream media news, I talk to a few military lads and just make my own mind up on it really... I don't however think the West is in anyway squeaky clean in much of the troubles around the world, far from it.... 

[paulus 26]

1 minute ago, NEWKID said:

It really depends on what side of the argument you choose to believe, have Russia lost 150k soldiers in the conflict? or is that bullshit propaganda... has Ukraine killed 14k Ukranians or are they Russian? 

I don't believe Putin can just roll into a sovereign country and take parts as his own, his real goal was to over throw the government and force a political change which favoured Russia or reunited with Russia, it would appear that the Ukranians are prepared to fight for their sovereignty even if they do not fully side with Zelensky, I'm sure many Ukranians do not want him as a leader the same as many Brits didn't want Boris or Sunak or Blair or Thatcher etc etc but are they now fighting for the life they have outside of Russian regime... which in my opion tells it's own story...

I confess to not trolling sites to find much outside of mainstream media news, I talk to a few military lads and just make my own mind up on it really... I don't however think the West is in anyway squeaky clean in much of the troubles around the world, far from it.... 

As i said on a previous post, There's no need to troll sites, just look at a map. i am neither pro Zaleski or pro Putin, What i can see is the EU spreading too near to the Bear and if you keep poking the bear eventually it will wake up. Personally i can not see how this conflict can be brought to an end at this point in time and i truly have a fear we are being lead down a path that nobody should really want to go. When is the last time your heard of any peace talks being brokered by any of the NATO countries. 

[Born Hunter 17,910]

20 minutes ago, paulus said:

They have also not unleashed anywhere near the amount of firepower the could have. If he wanted to take Ukraine at any cost he could have

He could have annihilated Ukraine, but I don't believe for a minute he could gain control of it. That has been the biggest shock of the whole thing.

The Russian war machine has proven it doesn't have the logistics to support that. To this day they have failed to gain air superiority, never mind supremacy, in a war on their doorstep. When Western powers have shown that capability time and again on battlefields in different hemispheres to their sovereign territory.

[NEWKID 28,636]

1 minute ago, Born Hunter said:

He could have annihilated Ukraine, but I don't believe for a minute he could gain control of it. That has been the biggest shock of the whole thing.

The Russian war machine has proven it doesn't have the logistics to support that. To this day they have failed to gain air superiority, never mind supremacy, in a war on their doorstep. When Western powers have shown that capability time and again on battlefields in different hemispheres to their sovereign territory.

That's about it for me, they haven't broke the will of the people, or changed their view that they do not want to become part of Russia, they had banked on the majority of people wanting to reunite, so absolutely smashing the country to bits would not achieve the objective.

I get the whole argument about Nato/The EU moving ever further East, but in the main the people of these countries do not want to return to the old USSR regime... Ukraine has proven that in many ways.

[paulus 26]

1 minute ago, Born Hunter said:

He could have annihilated Ukraine, but I don't believe for a minute he could gain control of it. That has been the biggest shock of the whole thing.

The Russian war machine has proven it doesn't have the logistics to support that. To this day they have failed to gain air superiority, never mind supremacy, in a war on their doorstep. When Western powers have shown that capability time and again on battlefields in different hemispheres to their sovereign territory.

But do they need air superiority when his aim appears to be to force the people to overthrow Zaleski's government by targeting infrastructure, His initial intention to roll into Kiev and remove Zaleski by force didn't work but he appears to be following broadly the same strategy, People also forget that the country was/is really divided in the south. 2.1 million have fled into Russia since the conflict began, 

Another question is Why is the west getting so involved in Ukraine? if it was an attack on a NATO member then i can understand it. Its  very sad for all involved but its not our problem. He has not invaded a NATO Member Country or even An EU member. Have we Acted to quickly? I wish our leaders had the answers and were actively trying to end this rather than, as it appears to escalate it.

[Born Hunter 17,910]

16 minutes ago, paulus said:

But do they need air superiority when his aim appears to be to force the people to overthrow Zaleski's government by targeting infrastructure, His initial intention to roll into Kiev and remove Zaleski by force didn't work but he appears to be following broadly the same strategy, People also forget that the country was/is really divided in the south. 2.1 million have fled into Russia since the conflict began, 

A lot of the ‘big’ multi piece strategic moves the Russians make fail, not just air superiority. Amphib landings, large armoured manoeuvres, air ops. They are just not capable of ‘big’ moves like NATO forces are. I’d argue if they had those capabilities then they’d have had Zelensky in Kiev and been holidaying in Crimea for summer. They seem to be little more than a mass (big mass) of second rate marauders with nukes. Which honestly shocks me.

[paulus 26]

1 minute ago, Born Hunter said:

A lot of the ‘big’ multi piece strategic moves the Russians make fail, not just air superiority. Amphib landings, large armoured manoeuvres, air ops. They are just not capable of ‘big’ moves like NATO forces are. I’d argue if they had those capabilities then they’d have had Zelensky in Kiev and been holidaying in Crimea for summer. They seem to be little more than a mass (big mass) of second rate marauders with nukes. Which honestly shocks me.

And that is exactly why i don't understand the wests approach to this, 

[Born Hunter 17,910]

1 minute ago, paulus said:

And that is exactly why i don't understand the wests approach to this, 

MAD chicken

[paulus 26]

Just now, Born Hunter said:

MAD chicken

You could be correct but its one hell of a gamble. 

[Born Hunter 17,910]

1 minute ago, paulus said:

You could be correct but its one hell of a gamble. 

Hell of a time to be alive 

[paulus 26]

1 minute ago, Born Hunter said:

Hell of a time to be alive 

Or not, only time will tell, You go left, I will go right, on my mark 

[mC HULL 15,920]

3 hours ago, jukel123 said:

Russia signed an agreement with NATO in 1997. Nato agreed not to have any significant military presence in any of the countries bordering Russia.  Then Russia  annexed Crimea. The agreement was therefore defunct. Russia was not holding to its side of the bargain.

The clue to Putin is his talk of the "fatherland" and his statement that Russians and Ukrainians are the same people. He then unleashes terror, destruction and death on Ukrainians.  Thousands of civilian lives lost and 9 million Ukrainian people displaced.

How people can defend Putin and bleat about aggressive NATO actions is beyond me. To quote Stiff: "the c**t has no right to Ukraine".

your joking  aren’t you jig  

the west and nato moved east years before crimea was annexed  

Edited February 24, 2023 by mC HULL

[scotty12 3,864]

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