Proto type IMBRA ???

[micky 3,325]

This trap looks to me  like an early IMBRA ! i am probably wrong but i can see similarities , any one know what it is ? .

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Micky; While I can see where ye coming from ~ and Sawyer did use some weird, 'split pan' effect stuff at times. Also, there was something of an obvious leaning towards incorporating the familiar and available bow springs ....?

  One thing that sticks out is the jaws. Imbra's pretty much always had jaws that slotted together. Those two appear to just rub.

  I'll dig back into my records though. There's a folder or two yet to look at.

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Yeah. Micky? The jury's out on this one. And they're not coming back in.

Much as I can tell you is that what I'd take to be the first idea out of Frank Sawyers head led us to ~ again, what I'd consider to be the first ever trap. And it wasn't pretty!

But, it Did have two, very rudimentary, Scissor like, flat jaws. It also incorporated a Flat, as it happens, spring. That one's locked away in a cupboard in a museum somewhere, now.

  As is ~ what I take to be the Second effort. (We're talking Prototypes here. Not to be confused with the later " Imbra Mk 1 and 2 ")

Now, the 'second' one, as I remember, does bear a vaguely closer resemblance to that monstrosity you're showing. But, at the same time, it's really pretty different.

(Forgive me; Windoze 10. I'm just not used to this and it keeps closing the files I'm trying to work from! Otherwise I'd be looking at, even showing you, the traps I'm referring to!)

Second one, as I remember though, has that weird, split plate? What ever. What I'm long windedly trying to say is that: It Looks, to Me like that could well actually be a missing link.

Don't put Your head on the block here. But, I reckon that looks hellishly like something that would fit beautifully between the thought processes that might lead from Prototype 1 to '2'. I Think that could be a missing " 1a ".

Am I making sense?

[OldPhil 5,359]

Yeah, Ken's Deputy,..it is a real mystery..

Mind you,.. we have both seen the plethora of files, that show images of the miscellaneous, (seemingly mad creations), from various engineering buffs and mad scientists, that were offered up, after the banning of the Gin Trap..

More than a few of these strange concepts and ideas, failed to make the cut, but several stayed very close to the long spring look of the original 'Gin'..

I don't think many folk actually realise, just what went down during that critical period twixt the Gin,.. and the Fenn...

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Phil; When ye consider the photo's that remain from all that? As far as I'm aware; the 'set' that made its way into private hands is only Very partial. God knows how many more now being lost for all time.

Then, there's the Bateman 'Rabbit Traps' book. (What in hell was his fukking name?!? Trevor!!! Fukk me! First name terms with the guy, one minute. Can't remember his fukking name the next! We'll be like Mr Murchinson soon )

 Anyway; I'm pretty sure he had one or two that weren't in the set, didn't he? Obviously, they would have been through the system. Of The Lost, see?

Long time, there was a rabbit trap spoken of, in whispers, as the 'S', something or other trap. Might be in Trev's book?

Anyway, I seem to remember I sussed That one out, amongst the photo's. Put the real name to it. The S name was actually the location of the MAFF lab where the photo's were taken. Research place. Something like " Silchester ". Something like that.

I handed all my records over to " OTC ". He was moving bloody mountains, at the time. Planned to publish Three full volumes on the old traps!

Probably had the material too! Had stripped the National Archives out and had made himself a personal acquaintance of Mr Fenn jr. Must have amassed the mother lode.

Then, His life took a turn Honestly don't know if he'd cross the road to look at a trap, now.

As the Essex Boy so bitterly moaned to me, just a few years back, if that:  " I must be sitting on the most expensive pile of scrap metal in the country! "

I think he could be right. Game's up.

 

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Okay, lads. I've slowed down for a minute here. Dug my files back out, having slept on it ~ I think so much better in my bed ~ and here's a few shots to Show ye what we're talking about here. Add some meat and bones to the abstract.

First off is the very first, known, Prototype that Frank Sawyer ever produced, when he turned his mind to designing a rabbit trap that could replace the Gin.

 

Yep. Okay, Frank. We see the way ye thinking. Take an old Flat Spring ye happen to have to hand and come up with a set of scissor action jaws? Not sure how it fires, mate. But, yep. See the principle.

Now, let's just remind ourselves of 'Mickys Monstrosity' there. Comparing aspects of the above:

 

 

See? Is is completely beyond possibility that Mr Sawyer went to bed, and woke up feeling refreshed and inspired to take another crack at it. Coming up with That? Grabbing a Bow spring, this time.

I would draw the jury's attention to that weird looking Plate.

Well, it's possible. It's equally perfectly possible that some other chap, completely removed, maybe at the other end of the country, had stood at His bench and came up with the above? I'd only point out how that one looks intended to lay at a right angle to the bury mouth. Sawyers go in.

 

Either way, Frank Sawyer 'next' came up with This!

 

 

Now, I say 'next' advisedly, because I really don't Know if this truly was Sawyers second proto. They were all just pulled out of a museum storage cupboard. There's a few of them, all told.

What ever. He's starting to see the rabbit now. As are we. There's the 'Imbra' spring. The jaws are slotted. Just Look At those delicious little supporting front feet there! Aren't they gorgeous?!

But, yeah; There's that Split Plate (Pan) again. A notion so weird and complex looking, it almost begs the question of whether Two minds could, independently, come up with such a thing. See?

  Looking back ~ having put my files away again ~ I don't remember seeing this form shown on other traps, exhibited on the surviving photo records, from the MAFF research station. Possibly not a usual thought process then?

What was more usual, and this spawned several look alike's, was the line of thinking that produced the 'S' rabbit trap I mentioned in the above post. I'm not at all sure the following is that particular trap. Just that the 'S' trap looked a lot like this one. As did a few of the inventions put forward:

And there ye go

 

[comanche 2,799]

Soooo, looking at Micky's trap ; is this how it would look when set?

The triangular flap acting as a  catch between both plates while holding the jaws open?

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by comanche

[micky 3,325]

3 hours ago, comanche said:

Soooo, looking at Micky's trap ; is this how it would look when set?

The triangular flap acting as a  catch between both plates while holding the jaws open?

 

I was wondering  about that 

[OldPhil 5,359]

Amazing technical drawing Comanche

Loads of strange traps around at that time..

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by OldPhil

[micky 3,325]

1 hour ago, OldPhil said:

Amazing technical drawing Comanche

Loads of strange traps around at that time...

Look at this old Phelps...

Is that the Foot Snare ?

[OldPhil 5,359]

Not sure Micky,..

I've seen so many crazy creations over the years,.. but very few made by trappers,...mostly madcap engineering projects...

Perhaps this is why only a few Spring Traps were passed by the Ministry,.. the rest were simply too complicated and costly to produce..

I quite liked using the Original Rabbit Fenn,..it seemed to catch fairly well..

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by OldPhil

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

3 hours ago, micky said:

Is that the Foot Snare ?

 

15 minutes ago, OldPhil said:

Not sure Micky,..

It most certainly is, lads There were ~ I Think ~ a couple of his ones? If I remember right; There was that one. Then another one that was, in all honesty, best described here as 'Indescribable'!

I had one of the 'other' sort and, looking back? Put a gun to my head and I still wouldn't know where to start. Had a round 'box', I dimly recall. And, I'm pretty sure, there were two Types of that one?

Can't imagine either of them being a shred of good, in use.

Dunno. I've lost the interest now and the memory's going at a fair old rate of knots too!

Sorry I can't be of more help. Leaving these little nuggets is like a last ditch hope of preserving what we once knew.

[mackem 23,736]

5 hours ago, micky said:

Is that the Foot Snare ?

 

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Bloody hell, Mackem; Is that yours?! It's practically factory, isn't it?

If I'm not mistaken, the wire 'arms' on the sides of the box were to throw the snare upwards. Idea being that would have it placed better as the spring tightened it. Higher up on the leg?

Belisle, of course, still make a foot snare that uses a similar idea. Theirs is proposed for bigger stuff though. Coyotes and such.

[OldPhil 5,359]

Ken,..do you remember the Aldrich Foot Snare, for Large Non-Indigenous Species...

When I was at the Ministry Headquarters, fighting my case to get the Body grippers passed, for use in the UK

I was enquiring as to WHY they had passed the Aldrich for use, but were giving me hassle with the Body grip and Kania 2000 ?

"There are no big critters running wild in the UK, now are there ffs"....

The silence was deafening,...and it made me wonder.....