Eley HP Subs

[walshie 2,804]

I need to buy a brick of ammo for my 22LR, Currently I'm using Eley HP Subs in the green box (40gr). They are by far the most accurate I've tried in my gun. The only thing that lets them down is the bullets are a bit waxy and leave a residue in the breech that can occasionally cause extraction problems.

My nearest RFD only has the new Eley HP Subs in the white box (38gr). Some of the articles I've read say the residue problem is better with these (good) but accuracy is worse (bad). 

Anyone got any pros or cons before I go and buy some?

[Rabid 1,936]

18 minutes ago, walshie said:

I need to buy a brick of ammo for my 22LR, Currently I'm using Eley HP Subs in the green box (40gr). They are by far the most accurate I've tried in my gun. The only thing that lets them down is the bullets are a bit waxy and leave a residue in the breech that can occasionally cause extraction problems.

My nearest RFD only has the new Eley HP Subs in the white box (38gr). Some of the articles I've read say the residue problem is better with these (good) but accuracy is worse (bad). 

Anyone got any pros or cons before I go and buy some?

I spent a few hours on Monday tasting 22 fodder through my Cz, I tried both the ones you mention and found the 38gr Possibly slightly better than the 40 but not much between the two.

what I did find was the Hornady 40gr varmint express out performed everything else by a country mile

[walshie 2,804]

Cheers for that Rob. I'll see if they've got some and get a couple of boxes to try. 

[Dervburner 2,548]

8 hours ago, walshie said:

Cheers for that Rob. I'll see if they've got some and get a couple of boxes to try. 

Be aware that varmint express hp’s crack a bit. I bought 4 boxes of the 38 grain eley, the first twenty or so weren’t quite as accurate as the old 40 grain in the green box, but after that they seemed to settle in and are now good. Well, they’ll do 2p sized groups at 100 yards, so not bad for .22 hollow points.

[Rabid 1,936]

1 hour ago, Dervburner said:

Be aware that varmint express hp’s crack a bit. I bought 4 boxes of the 38 grain eley, the first twenty or so weren’t quite as accurate as the old 40 grain in the green box, but after that they seemed to settle in and are now good. Well, they’ll do 2p sized groups at 100 yards, so not bad for .22 hollow points.

I didn’t find that, I was real suprised how quiet they were

[Meece 1,957]

My unfashionable, highy modified but incrediblely accurate BSA shoots any brand equally accurately but it really is a tack driver with RWS subs that I  laid in stock. I haven't specifically found any real difference in any brand of 22lr in that I  can feel fairly confidant about taking headshots out to about eighty paces Free hand.  the only thing that I  have noticed is that a lot of American brands tend to be on the hot side and aren't very accurate.  As far as smallbore target ammo for competition is  concerned most of American target ammo is rubbish.  I bought a thousand rounds of Remington target and it was so variable and inaccurate that i wouldn't be confident about hitting a dustbin at fifty paces.!  I just used them as barrel warmers. You couldn't even use them to rough zero because they were so innacurate.    This business with the wax is a bit of a surprise to me because a few years ago Eley match had a blooming great nipple of wax on the tip of the bullet.  It was a production fault.  Some of the more picky club  members were cutting this lump off of the bullet  tip maintaining thàt it made the bullet inaccurate.  This was just in their head because the rest of us didn't bother and the wax didn't cause any issue in the action, the barrel or in target accuracy.  An odd one... one of the son in laws bought a block of  40grn Winchester subsonic. The bullet shape being more round bull nose than normal.  He used them in his auto but the extra tip size kept hitting the top of the action in feeding and then the tip and case were totally bent L shape. I bought them off of him and they are ok in my bolt. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Meece

[philpot 4,925]

Like meece, my tikka loves the RWS subs with Eley being a close second (white box) which was the same in my anschutz.  I also really like the Hornady but they are about 1250fps so not subs however the crack is nowhere near as loud as CCI hv ammo and more bloody accurate.

Phil

[Meece 1,957]

On 23/10/2020 at 20:23, Meece said:

My unfashionable, highy modified but incrediblely accurate BSA shoots any brand equally accurately but it really is a tack driver with RWS subs that I  laid in stock. I haven't specifically found any real difference in any brand of 22lr in that I  can feel fairly confidant about taking headshots out to about eighty paces Free hand.  the only thing that I  have noticed is that a lot of American brands tend to be on the hot side and aren't very accurate.  As far as smallbore target ammo for competition is  concerned most of American target ammo is rubbish.  I bought a thousand rounds of Remington target and it was so variable and inaccurate that i wouldn't be confident about hitting a dustbin at fifty paces.!  I just used them as barrel warmers. You couldn't even use them to rough zero because they were so innacurate.    This business with the wax is a bit of a surprise to me because a few years ago Eley match had a blooming great nipple of wax on the tip of the bullet.  It was a production fault.  Some of the more picky club  members were cutting this lump off of the bullet  tip maintaining thàt it made the bullet inaccurate.  This was just in their head because the rest of us didn't bother and the wax didn't cause any issue in the action, the barrel or in target accuracy.  An odd one... one of the son in laws bought a block of  40grn Winchester subsonic. The bullet shape being more round bull nose than normal.  He used them in his auto but the extra tip size kept hitting the top of the action in feeding and then the tip and case were totally bent L shape. I bought them off of him and they are ok in my bolt. 

Further to  this post,  I  took a box of the Winchester subsonics to the rifle club and put some through my Anschutz target rifle.  They were a bit inaccurate  And nowhere near a target load like Eley match or even Eley club.  I dont know why American 22lr is so variable. Most of it is so over the top  that it is nearly all on the edge of being high velocity.  Dependant on the temperature and  humidity a lot is cracky.  Accuracy is all important.  There ain't any point in having an elephant rifle if you can't hit the elephant. It must be that the 22lr is something that you would give a kid to play with out there for shooting tin cans in the back garden.

[philpot 4,925]

2 hours ago, Meece said:

Further to  this post,  I  took a box of the Winchester subsonics to the rifle club and put some through my Anschutz target rifle.  They were a bit inaccurate  And nowhere near a target load like Eley match or even Eley club.  I dont know why American 22lr is so variable. Most of it is so over the top  that it is nearly all on the edge of being high velocity.  Dependant on the temperature and  humidity a lot is cracky.  Accuracy is all important.  There ain't any point in having an elephant rifle if you can't hit the elephant. It must be that the 22lr is something that you would give a kid to play with out there for shooting tin cans in the back garden.

I will go one step further meece, I have not found a gun which produces total accuracy with Winchester subs, in fact we found every so often you get a louder bang resulting in a wild point of impact to the degree that my shooting partner and myself stopped using them switching over to RWS subs and would never buy any again.

Phil

[Meece 1,957]

Over the years I have noticed that there is a variance of bullet diameter.   Sometimes a bullet will be either tight or loose to chamber. These do impact in different places. Loose ones tend to bang and shoot high.  I have tried to chrono rounds but haven't had any success because of the low light conditions inside of a range although I  have done it outside.  I have thought about clambering a round and then measuring the engraved bullet diameter. And /or machining up a go no go gauge. There are only a certain number of variables and  If the primer and powder charges are machine controlled and the bullet shows tight or loose then it could pay a dividend.  It wouldn't  matter if they were tight or loose as long as the rounds were selected to be consistent.   Maybe a swage die could be used to standardise the bullets.  Seeing as I  can't go to the rifle club as it is locked down until mid December, I  might investigate this aspect of the ammo that I  use.  Why is it that American ammunition is so innacurate?   Eley tennex, RWS, Lapua are consistent.  CCI, Winchester and ( Remington (especially ) are all over the place. So why? Apparently over half of the American Olympic team use Eley Tenex.  So why can't the US ammunition manufacturers churn out match grade ammo.?

Edited November 8, 2020 by Meece

[Sausagedog 7,381]

Walshie....you could just wipe the excessive  lube off while watching telley!

[Meece 1,957]

On 21/10/2020 at 09:44, walshie said:

 The only thing that lets them down is the bullets are a bit waxy and leave a residue in the breech that can occasionally cause extraction problems.

Going back to the original post,  I'd  like to know how the bullet lube is causing extraction problems. There was a time where Eley match 22lr had a big drop of solidified lube on the tip. Some rifle shooters at the club were removing it.  Some weren't.  The wax didnt seem to alter the accuracy on target at all and I  never heard of any incident of failure to eject a case.  I've never seen or experienced any sort of build up of lube causing extraction problems. I've seen actions that have had a fair build up of a mix of lube and brass flakes  But not to The point of a jam up.  When the BSA martini actions were immersed in petrol in a tin the amount of grease, unburnt powder flakes ,flakes of brass  along with crud residue was  incredible. The reason that I  query this is,  that could it be possible that there is a fault with the ejector claw that isn't able to pull on the rim of the cartridge.? Or the crud build up is holding the ejector out away from the rim.! 

[walshie 2,804]

9 minutes ago, Meece said:

Going back to the original post,  I'd  like to know how the bullet lube is causing extraction problems. There was a time where Eley match 22lr had a big drop of solidified lube on the tip. Some rifle shooters at the club were removing it.  Some weren't.  The wax didnt seem to alter the accuracy on target at all and I  never heard of any incident of failure to eject a case.  I've never seen or experienced any sort of build up of lube causing extraction problems. I've seen actions that have had a fair build up of a mix of lube and brass flakes  But not to The point of a jam up.  When the BSA martini actions were immersed in petrol in a tin the amount of grease, unburnt powder flakes ,flakes of brass  along with crud residue was  incredible. The reason that I  query this is,  that could it be possible that there is a fault with the ejector claw that isn't able to pull on the rim of the cartridge.? Or the crud build up is holding the ejector out away from the rim.! 

No. Because when it first happened I gave the ejector claws a good clean. Shortly after that I replaced both of them.

The symptoms were 20 or 30 rounds fired perfectly then the next one, the bolt pulled back without the empty case, which needed picking out with a screwdriver. They were a really tight fit in the breech. A quick rub round of the breech with a patch sorted it for another short while. 

Since then I've been wiping the excess off the rounds while still in the box which has helped a lot, but if I know I'm going to do a lot of shooting in a short time I've been using CCI subs with no such issues. 

Eleys are still the most accurate in this particular gun, hence asking if the new Eleys were less waxy. 

[Meece 1,957]

Is it worth giving the chamber a bloody good scrubbing with a phosphor bronze brush and a drop of Ed's red.?

EDIT.  I use Rizzla filters to clean stuff out of .22s.  they seem to do the job quite well.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Meece

[walshie 2,804]

1 hour ago, Meece said:

Is it worth giving the chamber a bloody good scrubbing with a phosphor bronze brush and a drop of Ed's red.?

EDIT.  I use Rizzla filters to clean stuff out of .22s.  they seem to do the job quite well.

Been there, done that with the bronze brush. Not tried fag filters yet.