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Just got the call today.   17 hmr, 17 hornet and a 223 rem.   Already bought a s/h reloading kit and I'm hoping I can get close to hmr costs with the hornet. If I can I can't see me using anything

When you start reloading don't go in search of the holy grail.   Hornet is notoriously easy to load for but as soon as you find a recipe that works for your gun and gives you what you want at 100 y

The friend who's 17 hornet I used is not a home-loader and finds obtaining factory ammunition to be difficult. Fortunately, he doesn't shoot that much and laid in a supply when he first got the rifle,

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I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean over and above the security level needed to have section 1 firearms in the first place?

Is it not classed as handling explosives? if it is then is more security standards required?



You'll not be having any explosions. This is what happens to propellant powders if you light them:



They don't explode, they burn and produce gas at a controlled rate dictated by the type of propellant used.


The only time you could get an explosion would be if you contained a larger quantity in a container that contained the pressure, and then what you'd really get is a sudden escape of pressure from the container rather than a true explosion. Think gunpowder plot. However, I somehow doubt you're going to get a fire in a small container or be allowed store enough to cause any significant risk. Guy Fawkes didn't try and put hundreds of 3ft tall barrels under Parliament for no reason. A small pot of propellant or black powder for reloading isn't going to amount to anything much different than a very small firework and that's even assuming the container doesn't prevent fire in the 1st place and can contain the pressure from the fire long enough to burst with force.

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Internet bravado as to personal skill in fieldcraft aside, there are circumstances where you have to get a fox and the distance is non-negotiable. In those circumstances the flattest trajectory possible is very handy, particularly at night and when other people have been shooting at them. ;)

No bravado here, just opinion.


Sure, there are going to be trickier foxes to get I've had some myself but if they won't call or they become wary of a lamp or ir source you change approach and try baiting or a bushing on a known run.


I've got 1 to topple next week that has proved elusive and ignorant to hand / mouth calls and electronic so far but it's been seen taking bait from the spot I've been leaving it in twice in the last fortnight at about the same time so when I can get down there next week it should be an ex-basil!

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There are circumstances where a shot longer than 200 yards cannot be avoided and not as a result of lack of fieldcraft, as you rather amusingly claim.


If you think about it you have covered the necessity for the occasional long shot under the "change approach" technique.


An example might be a chicken farm I shoot with a mate where lines of chicken huts are arranged like a Japanese POW camp.


The best spot to ambush foxes heading in an out of it is something like a ride 600y long along one side of the buildings.


This a professional pest control job, rather than sport shooting, and so the the farm must covered; it's no good telling the farmer to bait such and such a spot for a week, "don't worry I'll catch up with him soon", etc.


The solution was to build a fox box with something approximating a shooting bench in it in the middle of the ride and to be prepared to shoot to 300 yards each way.


It's a hell of a shot at night and so in addition to the solid rest we use 243s with 55 grain ballistic tips running at around 4000 fps.


Zero'd 1.5" at it's maximum apogee it is point and shoot at that distance.


In short there are certainly circumstances where a long shot may be the best option and a blanket statement like "(if you can't call it or bait / ambush it to within 175/150 you don't deserve to shoot it imho)." is merely inexperience.

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Good to see you haven't lost the knack of taking innocent statements out of context!



Of course there will be the odd occasion where a longer shot is the only approach but there is a somewhat worrying trend these days of stretching rifles (or shooters) past their realistic limits or seeing how far you can drop something 'just because'. I'll admit I've been guilty of it myself to test where the realistic limits are with each of my rifles and I have had wounding shots and clean misses as a result but now tend to get a nudge closer in and go for high percentage rather than high yardage.


If you need to be taking 200 - 300 yard fox for commercial stock protection then using the right tool for the job based on the range you need (243, 22-250 or similar long, flat cal) makes it viable but being able to actually call or attract the creature in to a safe, certain (or as certain as you can make it) shot takes as much, if not more skill than the shot itself. The drop it where you see it style of fox control that is becoming more common is (imho) half the problem with difficult foxes - people have probably already missed them by over estimating their abilities.



In a completely unrelated issue - did you ever find a compartmented bag for stalking that you asked about on the other forum last year at some point? I saw something the other day that looked ideal, drop me a pm if you want a link.

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