Hello All - Mtc Optics

[acculead 32]

hi there Gary, and welcome on board

[bigmac 97kt 13,737]

:snack:

[toby63 1,236]

i think VM as scared him lol ???

[villaman 9,980]

I am still P****d off how they charged me £16 odd because the pellet got in to the hammer ,then told it happened because I took a vertical shot and it is my my fault , that is not on !!

Edited February 23, 2015 by villaman

[charlie caller 3,654]

Seems to have disappeared into the ether :hmm:interesting this, I wonder if that new electric thing, costing 2k is going to put out piddly power, you would be well chuffed there, 2k on a thing doing 9ftlbs

[villaman 9,980]

Its just not this forum but most forums are having a go at Daystate , surely Daystate must know what is being said about them !!

[GaryC 9]

Hi All.

Many thanks for the welcome, it is appreciated.

My sincere apologies for a late reply, I hadn't realised I had caused any interest I'd expected a direct contact and hadn't noticed mails from here telling me I'd had a reply. SAM kindly pinged me and pointed it out and I've come straight on and I am gratified that you have taken the time to give Daystate a flaming :-), my spam filter is changed and I'll be watching in future. Anger and passion make my job so much easier, apathy makes it impossible. All I can say is that I both sympathise and agree with you, there is something wrong that needs fixing. I'm going to be a little bit controversial here and say that in shooting there is a % of top blokes, a % of knowledgeable blokes, a % of idiots, a % of mischief makers and a % of gossip mongers (which is pretty much the same in any sport) so it is impossible for me to generalise and I certainly don't believe every story, nor should you.

However, what I do believe is that there has been a problem, there are too many obvious and genuine cases to believe otherwise. My aims are:

1. To help Daystate minimise these problems and send guns out with zero defects.
2. To set up a testing regime that, when things do break (and they always will) picks up the faults so that a customer never gets embroiled in an epic
3. To engender an open regime with a culture of honesty and admission

 

When I first started competing in 2003 Daystate were similar to MTC. We had fans, we had people that didn't like the scopes, but we had a decent reputation as a company, I'd like to think that we were always thought of as shooters first and business second. Daystate were similar, and somehow that has been lost. I believe Daystate owners buy the guns because of a passion for something a little special, if that is delivered then they have a VERY loyal customer base. If they don't that passion works the opposite way and we have the bad feeling that we have now.

 

All I can do is ask for your trust and help. Trust me that I am going to do everything I can to make Daystate quality and customer service the best in the business. (Daystate have trusted me, and given my reputation as a loose cannon that's quite a risk.) Help me by feeding back as much concrete information as you can. My Diana e-mail is "mychristianname"@mtcoptics.com. (Gary) and my cell phone is freely available. We can't change what's gone before, and changing what's happening now will take a while, but it WILL change.

[Bunnyblatter 1,012]

Fair play to coming on and putting your point across Gary. Let's hope the problems at Daystate get ironed out

[villaman 9,980]

Hi Gary

I just hope for Daystates sake you can help turn it around, it would be sad to see another British air gun company go , IMO

 

I would love to have another Regal, lovely looking gun , nice to shoulder but it would be nice to see a nice blued barrel in stead of the cheap shrouds and for it to work like it should

Edited February 24, 2015 by villaman

[villaman 9,980]

We have Mary Portas queen of shops and now have Gary C Prince of guns

[pianoman 3,586]

Well done and well said Gary.

 

My thoughts on the current state of Daystate Ltd and your mission statement.,

 

I don't think the problems currently experienced are insumountable. The main and most difficult problem to identify and fix, is possibly, an attitude that has been all too prevelant before in British business, where there is a perceived contempt for the customer. It has always been thus and it's time it was eradicated from the workplace. The days of "Build it cheap as possible and sell it dear as we can" are long over now. How happy is the workforce building the rifles? What's their moral like?

 

Sending me a printed report on my rifle's chronographed performance that proved to be untrue did not win me over to Daystate's service department. That's why, in the end, my Regal went to a gunsmith I could trust to put it right. We are not punters to be despised and lied to (Ghastly used car salesman's term; punter!) we are customers and clients to be well-served, with courtesy and we deserve to be treated as such for the money we pay for these guns.

 

You want a Rolls Royce price for your rifles. We want a Rolls Royce product and service in return. That's not always the case here by an alarming degree. There may be the odd idiot who's spotted a note of dissatisfaction from genuine customers and has jumped on a bandwagon. But not everyone is so disposed. There is genuine dissatisfaction with the Regal at least, that Daystate must not dismiss lightly.

 

Any brand new Daystate rifle is out of reach of the pocket of the less-well off on a tight budget. Let's get this in perspective. They are costly rifles that should have a fine quality of finish and performance that reflects their price tags. And currently, that's not the case by a long shot. These are not the Purdy of the air rifle business as some may like to think it is. A healthy doctrrine, instilled in every employee should be to make something he/she would be proud to own themselves That begins with how well treated, paid and happy the workforce is!

 

The guns Daystate are showing are truly innovative and very appealing in their design. And they have sensibly adopted to build a small range of air rifles in all calibres which, should make it easy to maintain a thorough and efficient Quality Control in manufacture. Surely, it's not rocket science to anyone working there, who can see if the bolt is too stiff, the power's too low, this dosn't work properly, that's too loose. this doesn't fit properly. If employee moral is poor, nobody will give a shit about passing-out rubbish as OK. And its the rubbish, not the gems that get the most gossip-space,

 

Coming up with a .303 air rifle or a £2,000 air rifle like the Pulsar is a financial disaster. Running off to America in the hope these will save your fortunes while the bread-and-butter guns most of us buy, are proving not up to the job, is a measure of desperation.

 

The US is a vast market over-flowing and over-subscribed with almost limitless buying-choices. It's the bread and butter products of your home market that determines how good your foundations are to compete in such a marketplace. Or not. No-one is going to entrust a £2,000 investment in a brand new air rifle design, that comes from a maker who's got a growing reputation for poor workmanship in other, less costly examples of its products

 

And when I or anyone else pays out £800 and more on an air rifle to hunt with, we want the rabbit/vermin we are shooting killed clean and as humanely quick as possible. Not have its head bashed in at 30 yards.

 

It really is high time for Daystate to improve its standards across its range of products and services. Or it will perish. Sadly but brutally, that's the hard reality of business. Nothing personal!

 

Best of luck and regards Gary.

Simon

Edited February 25, 2015 by pianoman

[Dr B 186]

A big thumbs up for Simon on this. Constructional criticism, made in a cordial fashion. Great job

 

Slightly off topic, but I wonder if many manufacturers go through phases like this. There was a time when HW seemed to rest on their laurels and people like AA came along and mopped up (springers). Some have said to me that AA are starting to become a bit stale, and now HW are truly innovative. So who knows, maybe a company starts to dominate and then drops the ball from time to time.

 

Daystate seem to me to be trying to occupy that 'elite' section of the market place. So all the more important its done right.

[villaman 9,980]

Very well put Simon

[pianoman 3,586]

A big thumbs up for Simon on this. Constructional criticism, made in a cordial fashion. Great job

 

Slightly off topic, but I wonder if many manufacturers go through phases like this. There was a time when HW seemed to rest on their laurels and people like AA came along and mopped up (springers). Some have said to me that AA are starting to become a bit stale, and now HW are truly innovative. So who knows, maybe a company starts to dominate and then drops the ball from time to time.

 

Daystate seem to me to be trying to occupy that 'elite' section of the market place. So all the more important its done right.

 

 

Very well put Simon

Thank you gentlemen.

 

I want to make my observations as a genuine customer and my experience as such, recorded as soberly, justly and honestly as possible in the light of the level of complaint and criticism for Daystate currently abroad. It has clearly made an impression on the management and they are clearly, only wishing to do something positive about it.

 

Gary is right about there being a percentage of idiots who've never owned a Daystate rifle, who jump on the bandwagon when they see what they think is blood in the water and start running with it. Untrue as it may be, these things start to take hold and quickly foster a poor reputation that can kill a decent business It's not fair but, it happens.

 

There is more than enough genuine dis-enchantment with Daystate's current Regal particularly that should cause grave concerns for Daystate's management. There are reports of stiff bolts loose fit of parts, loose barrel shrouds and poor, low power performance. That is my own experience with this rifle and one re-itterated over several shooting forums including Daystate Owners Forum. And these issues must be put right with its production. I cannot speak for the rest of their range as I don't own them but, there are a lot of discussions from other owners about this rifle and others, real, or imagined as a consequence that are not very flattering. If it was my company I would be on the shop floor, looking closely at what's coming off the line that has been passed fit for sale and batch-test it myself. But I don't and I can't.

 

I only wish that these observations, however negative, may be taken onboard and acted upon. Or Daystate will find itself a victim of arrogance and eventually lose sales revenue and go under.

 

And I don't want that to happen. This is a great company, capable of superb products and they deserve to succeed.

 

Simon/Pianoman.

 

Edit to add.

I've said all I can say on this subject. Let's now see what Gary can do about this.

Edited February 25, 2015 by pianoman

[charlie caller 3,654]

Very well said Simon indeed, I agree with all you have said, I have never owned a Daystate and have no particular desire to own one, however, I would hate to see an English air rifle manufacturer go under, due to the hubris you mention, which certainly was evident in years gone by. and perhaps your most important point, certainly in my view, is that if I was a boss/manager high flyer within the Daystate or indeed any other brand organisation, I would be on that shop floor testing,testing, testing, to make damn sure every rifle sent out was as it should be, the knock on effect of that on the workforce is obvious to anyone with half a brain, we had better get this spot on lads mr........ is testing them personally, if it is not right heads will roll, come on Daystate, you aspire to be the Aston Martin of our airgun industry, live up to those aspirations, or fold, simple as that.