Springer Started Running Off

[James1982 4]

Hi all, I have a 16 month old springer, he was from working stock but is not a working dog more of a pet.(as my profile pic shows with him in a jumper the wife and kids put on him which surprisingly he really likes wearing lol)

We went to training classes and he is trained to retrieve dummy's from land or water and never really had an issue with him till recently when he just runs off and just runs round been defiant barking and been really excited when we call him?.

Also when off the lead if he sees other people or even more other dogs he started running to them to be stroked / play, not sure why he started doing it but it's becoming a problem, he is not aggressive in anyway and never shown aggression but he is fairly big, bouncy and clumsy and tbh if a dog I didn't know ran upto me and my kids I would be on edge as you never know what there like and would hate to think anyone would be scared by him as he is so loving just a bit to much love he sees the need to share it with everyone lol

 

Any help tips or advice would be great or any training schools in the hull area that people have used and can recommend. I've spoke to the breeder who past me a shock type coller which I didn't take as I was unsure if that was the right thing to do to stop him doing this what are peoples thoughts on this?.

[STRANGER 948]

If your walking the dog around other people/dogs he should be on a lead anyway.

The problem is when he runs up to other people you cannot discipline him in front of them (which is what you should do), so safer bet is to walk him on a lead in busy places.

 

The other problem sounds like he is taking the piss, need to be firm. If he wont come back to you, go out and get him and bring him back to where you were. Firmly.

 

Sounds to me as if the family environment may well be undoing any good work you have put in.

 

Just my opinion.

[RubyTex 1,957]

Exactly what STRANGER has said.. sounds like he's taking the piss so you've got to be firm with him and it'll come right.

[ftm 3,357]

any training you done goes out the window once the wife and kids take over lots of hard work is so easily lost in the wrong hands --I totally agree with past comments -billy

[socks 32,253]

Yep sounds like he is being treated more like one of the kids than a dog ... He really likes wearing the jumper FFS that says it all ..........

[James1982 4]

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

The jumper has gone the harness has gone back on a slip lead and working on not letting him sit on the sofa but as soon as back turned he is back on it.

As for the off the lead he is only off the lead when on the deserted beach or empty fields or woods however if he sees someone a field away he is off, he comes back once he has been to see them but it's the stopping him doing it in the first place that's my issue.

 

So as for been firm, we do the talk loud and firm, take him back to were i want him and make him sit and wait of what ever command I've given him, I was just looking for tips or advice on what else I can try as only advise I keep getting is use a training collar or give him a whack with a news paper both I don't want to do.

[socks 32,253]

The being firm must be all the time 24/7 until the dog realises that you the wife and kids are in charge and he MUST listen ... You can not let him get away with doing anything he shouldn't be doing otherwise the lack of consistency gives the dog mixed signals and allows him to behave as he pleases ... You will all,have a much happier and healthier relationship once he knows his place and boundaries .........

[Philluk 181]

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

The jumper has gone the harness has gone back on a slip lead and working on not letting him sit on the sofa but as soon as back turned he is back on it.

As for the off the lead he is only off the lead when on the deserted beach or empty fields or woods however if he sees someone a field away he is off, he comes back once he has been to see them but it's the stopping him doing it in the first place that's my issue.

So as for been firm, we do the talk loud and firm, take him back to were i want him and make him sit and wait of what ever command I've given him, I was just looking for tips or advice on what else I can try as only advise I keep getting is use a training collar or give him a whack with a news paper both I don't want to do.

Hi James

 

Couple of points.

If you have a dog that chases sheep, do you, A, take him in a field of sheep B, keep him away from sheep so he can't chase them? This will split the group as the answer is to take him in a field of sheep and do your training.

So by only letting him off lead on a beach or alone is ok but what if another dog appears on a beach.

 

Forget the collar and newspaper that is lazy mans punishment training. Being firm is one thing but there is a thin line between firm and a scared dog.

 

So on your own like we have said many times and read back on here a few articles in your training field establish some ground rules, spend time making sure the heel work is done so the dog stays with you, walk on lead stop, turn, every time you stop blow the stop whistle so you, break the sit with the word heel and walk, turn left, right, stop. Walk change direction, stop sit etc. then ensure you have the stay, walk 5 paces make sure you have that mastered go back to your dog, once this has been done and is all ok and the sit, which means sit and stay, stay means stay. Stay means you sit you stay and don't move until I tell you. Loads of high pitched praise and if we do something wrong don't say anything, if you make the dog sit and stay and walk away 5 paces and the dog moves, say nothing put her back on her spot, wait where you were then go back and make that high praise again. Keep this up and if you have a longer lead use that and when you are happy this is working then introduce distractions in the form of other dogs, but never set your dog up to fail keep the dog on a lead next to you and watch the lady with her dog but get on a line where she will walk past you but not very close. When she has passed praise the dog. Be aware you can send a signal down the lead, you see another dog you tighten lead dog receives signals so lose lead is fine and if he tries to run just do your normal return him to the sit.

 

There is nothing wrong with a jumper apart from it will thin the cost and make him hot, as for sitting on a sofa my springer was shooting with me this morning retrieved and flushed well came home, was washed outside and is as I type this on the back of my sofa snoring away, my superstar working cocker asleep by the door it's cooler.

[Philluk 181]

Reading your original post there are a few clues as well.

 

We went to training classes... So you don't now... You have a working machine that your not working, started to do what he was bred for and stopped

 

Sounds like he is bored to me.

[James1982 4]

Interesting points you have made, I've had him out in fields to day on a training lead as there are a mixed bunch of animals we have to go by and he did great till he went after a pheasant in a bush.

 

The training was just the kennel club bronze that he completed. But the centre was more focused in using the training funds to import more Romanian rescue dogs and not enough time on the traing classes so stopped going.

 

I think the best way is get him out everyday and keep at it till it's right.

 

He was great till he spent the day with another dog and now all he wants to do is play with other dogs!

 

Thanks again

James

[Philluk 181]

Hi James

 

Your going in the right direction I would suggest you have a look about for gun dog training classes, that way they will guide you in the right direction.

 

Going after a pheasant isn't a bad thing, if you read the books they say when a bird takes off or a rabbit runs you teach your dog to sit, yes I can see this as you don't want to shoot a dog, but horses for courses I want mine to chase I encourage it, it's not right it's not wrong but it's what I want.

 

At all times your training should be close, don't let the dog run too far, the word steady as they reach the 20 yd mark and stop them if they go any further, it will come but 16 month your in teenage yrs so you got a Kevin there. Be patient be firm no need to hit or kick just remember that high pitch voice and make a fuss and a deep voice if it's wrong, remember a dog may not be wrong he just doesn't understand what you want.

 

If your dog brings a dummy back and drops it 10 ft away it's not wrong it's just not completed the task, we don't shout at it and tell it to bring here now in a deep voice, we use the high voice walking backwards and encourage it in to you then loads of fuss when he does it.

 

Yes you must do every day no more than 10 mins training then enjoy the walk.

 

It's not a problem to play it's just got to be when you allow, keep on lead till you get next to someone then let him off so he has not run off.

 

There must be someone on here who is aware of gun dog classes nr you

[James1982 4]

Hi phill,

 

Thank you for the feed back and positive feedback at that, I think your correct he is at the age were he wants to see what he can get away with but it's getting better every time we go out although it's thick fog in hull tonight and with the dark night he was very alert not frightened as such but very on edge so that might be why he stayed close.we Saw a fox told him to heel and wait which he did but give off a bark, "first time I've heard him bark properly didn't realise how deep and loud they could bark", again said a simple firm NO and he sat back down so fuss and bit of food,

He is very food orientated and can get him to do most things with the promiss of food I know some people say don't do it but as it's starting to work I can't see a problem at the minute.

As you say gun dog training would be great I think I'll have to dig about a bit to find a class I can get to after work or weekend with him.

 

Thanks again

James

[Philluk 181]

The reason treat training is a big no no is your giving him a choice. Your saying if you sit I will give you food. So he will sit as he wants food, your out in a park and he goes to run off you say heel or blow whistle he has the same choice do I stay for food or do I go and see the dog? And the other dog will win most times over food, what if running off is always his choice and crosses a road to see another dog.

 

Your problem will come harder when you want the dog back, mine comes back from wherever he is as he is told to. When he comes back he sits and I make a fuss that's his reward. I've seen many people chase after their dog to catch it.

 

The other dogs out there have the same choice you tell them to sit and they do it because they are told and the reward is to please their owner.

[Casso 1,256]

Hunting with us makes the dog social,

pack life can be endured with all it's negative associations ( confrontation discipline)if the canine feels he can express himself through the group activity of the hunt in what ever form that takes for the dog,

The stresses of living with humans cause a real energy build up , it's just a constant stimulating environment and when a dog is energised it doesn't dissipate its stored ready to be called on at given moments ,

I would keep up the retrieve training , by doing so will form a group collective bond with the dog in what it feels is a hunting activity,

 

Just to make a point , when a dog feels it has a good working relationship with its owner , a group bond is formed , the dog tunes you in and makes ITSELF social to fit and because in a group of canines they can't all be the same they become like points on a compass , like two dogs living together they become equal but opposite in everything, it doesn't make any difference to the dog if the hunting partner is canine or human

 

When a bond is formed a correction is just simply a negative which will eventually lead to a positive (the hunt) but with no partnership formed corrections stand on their own and make other objects of attraction (people dogs) all the more appealing, they become the path of least resistance ,

 

I would cut indoor stimulation out , and up energetic hunting type interaction between you and the pup

Best of luck whichever way you approach it bud,

[hily 379]

you can try and build a bond by letting the dog off in a area like a garden or even in the house take no notice of the dog at all even when he comes to or wants your attention as soon as he gives up and walks away call him to you in other words you don't allow him take charge of the situation you make the moves not the dog I think this type of training is a good first building block without you being to harsh with your dog as firm does'nt mean over the top or you loose any bond you have with the dog and he won't forget or forgive you.as always only my opinion