Ireland Irish Game & Country Fair Birr 25th & 26th August

[AlbertJ 569]

would every one get a grip,seems to me that the man must have a few terrier bitches he'd like to show which are not jacks , and the game fair didn't provide a bitch class, where as the terrier and lurcher shows do.

 

Not all terrier & lurcher shows do have split classes - some do and if class numbers justify it so will we at our 2013 shows.

[jimjim 18]

would every one get a grip,seems to me that the man must have a few terrier bitches he'd like to show which are not jacks , and the game fair didn't provide a bitch class, where as the terrier and lurcher shows do.

 

Not all terrier & lurcher shows do have split classes - some do and if class numbers justify it so will we at our 2013 shows.

gee albert j i bet if you were a dog you'd be a jack russell you never give in or give the last word to anybody

[AlbertJ 569]

would every one get a grip,seems to me that the man must have a few terrier bitches he'd like to show which are not jacks , and the game fair didn't provide a bitch class, where as the terrier and lurcher shows do.

 

Not all terrier & lurcher shows do have split classes - some do and if class numbers justify it so will we at our 2013 shows.

gee albert j i bet if you were a dog you'd be a jack russell you never give in or give the last word to anybody

 

Jimjim,

 

Only to my wife!

[young man 225]

Liam will I be seeing you in Borris next week? All the lads are heading down, hope to see you there.

is this refering to me man i think you know me from moiara im always with ged and janno and tha!

 

Alright young man,, you must be another Liam? Jigaw from this site is also called Liam, but hope to see you at the show. And if I were you I would keep stump about your association with the two fore mentioned men.

there two ledgends so sound and would do anything for ya ! and onothe peter morgan he's a ledgend

[madrarua 29]

If the terrier event is run the same as shanes castle i will not be going. There was seperate classes for dogs and bitches in the russells but in all the other classes dogs and bitches were put together, i wonder why?

 

Sorry I missed a question on this on another thread because I was on holiday for 5 days in Knoydart after Shanes - pure bliss no car, no 'phone, no internet and no TV. One pub 1.5 miles away from where we were staying and sunshine virually every day. With walking, eating and drinking I came back ready to finish off our planning for Birr and I am afarid I didn't feel like trawling through a lot of posts on Shanes. So my apologies if you or someone else felt they didn't get an answer - as you know I normally try to answer every post - good or bad!. We had intended to split the classes at Shanes but entries in the terriers were down at Ballywalter and I heard many of the other shows. But because we had a Russell specialist from Scotland we decided to split that particular breed in defence to his specialist knowledge. This is quite common practice in KC shows. HOWEVER - I will be looking at the entries at Birr and those breeds with good entries will get the classes split at our future shows plus if we bring across a specialist from the UK his or her classes will be split.

In all the non gamefair shows all over Ireland dogs and bitches are split up. This is to suit the customers and give everyone a fair chance irespective of the judges preference he is there to judge all breeds. What you are saying is jack russels had preference over other breeds, you make it look like that is why the jack russel got champion of show. It doesn't matter how far a judge has to travel, as i have done so myself. A lot alot of small shows are for charity, unlike yours. A little bit of advice , shows are run for the paying public not for the judge!

 

Of course it is not why the Jack Russell got Champion and of course everyone had a fair chance. You could argue if the JRs could only qualify in big classes whereas someone could qualify in a class of two or three - it was unfair to the Jack Russells. As I explained it is quite common at KC shows to give the specialist judge extra classes and competitors there don't complain - it is just that if someone is a specialist they are likely to draw a bigger entry. Most shows in NI are not run with split classes but with similar classes to our shows.

 

Now some facts : 1. It is a fact that we put more back into the prize funds of our shows than probably any organisers of events in the UK or Ireland. 2. The organising clubs take all of the proceeds and we encourage them to make a substantial donation to a charity. 3 On a personal basis Irene and I support a whole range of charity shows and events of all kinds and we also help the chairty shows and others by giving them qualifiers for our prestige events - in fact I cannot think of anyone who approached us for sponsorship for a charity event or show that was refused assistance. 4. it costs a great deal of money to bring a judge across and they give of their time - a little courtesy of trying to attract a good entry for them is appreciated by anyone who is judging. 5. We give the paying public excellent value at our events in terms of excellent prize funds, good facilities, good judges, good entertainment, a great range of exhibitors and value for money discounts. 6. As I said we are looking at splitting classes when the classes justify a split - we will look at this after we see the entry at BIrr.

And here is a fact for you , these are not KC shows , these are working shows and all dogs are judged on their wortking ability.

 

Sorry NOT a fact - the dogs are not judged on their working ability they are judged on their looks, conformation, condition etc. You cannot judge a dog's working ability by looking at it or handling it. In fact the dogs are judged much as they would be at a KC show.

I disagree with you on this matter, you judge them on whether they are fit for purpose or not. A terrier must be able to fit up to a fox within reason. If what you say about KC shows being similar maybe the I.W.T.F would not have much interest in being at your show in the future. It looks like you might be looking for a qualifier for kruffs at birr. This is nothing personal i'm just a working terrier man and want fair play for all working dogs.

Again you appear to wish to find something to criticise - KC judges are also supposed to judge for 'fit for purpose' a fairly elusive and highly subjective. Obviously things such as size are part of conformation.

 

You started off this line of discussion asking why we split dog & bitches in the Jack Russell classes at Shanes. I gave you an answer and stated that IF ENTRIES JUSTIFIED IT WE WOULD LOOK AT SPLITTING SEXES FOR CLASSES AGAIN AFTER BIRR .

 

It appears that what you really wanted to do was to find something to criticise about our event at Birr as you have now proferred advice on how our judges should judge; on how to run our shows and treat our customers, how dogs should be judged at shows for their working ability and finally giving advice to the IWTF. Although we are the most experienced game fair organisers in the world - 50 fairs over 34 years and have been running terrier shows for longer than most clubs in Ireland, we do take cognisance of suggestions on how to improve any facet of our events.

 

But we have been running working terrier & lurcher shows for 32 years and we pick judges who we think have displayed competence and know what they are doing AND we welcome the formation of the IWTF and welcome their presence at our events. I should like to know of what basis of experience that you consider yourself competent to offer advice on this whole range of issues including telling the IWTF what they should and shouldn't do.

 

I'm not criticising your gamefairs theres nothing wrong with them, the problem i had is with the classes for dogs and bitches as you already know. I do support a lot of dogshows up and down the country and have traveled many times to englad and wales to gamefairs , and i also have judged in and out of the country so i to do know something about it aswell. In reference to the I.W.T.F i am fully behind it. Its just when u mentioned KC and the I.W.T.F i don't see them as compatable in my opinion, but if someone wants to keep KC dogs that is their buisness. I still think gamefairs as big as your one should be able to accomodate dogs and bitches as they do in england and wales. Edited August 2, 2012 by madrarua

[AlbertJ 569]

If the terrier event is run the same as shanes castle i will not be going. There was seperate classes for dogs and bitches in the russells but in all the other classes dogs and bitches were put together, i wonder why?

 

Sorry I missed a question on this on another thread because I was on holiday for 5 days in Knoydart after Shanes - pure bliss no car, no 'phone, no internet and no TV. One pub 1.5 miles away from where we were staying and sunshine virually every day. With walking, eating and drinking I came back ready to finish off our planning for Birr and I am afarid I didn't feel like trawling through a lot of posts on Shanes. So my apologies if you or someone else felt they didn't get an answer - as you know I normally try to answer every post - good or bad!. We had intended to split the classes at Shanes but entries in the terriers were down at Ballywalter and I heard many of the other shows. But because we had a Russell specialist from Scotland we decided to split that particular breed in defence to his specialist knowledge. This is quite common practice in KC shows. HOWEVER - I will be looking at the entries at Birr and those breeds with good entries will get the classes split at our future shows plus if we bring across a specialist from the UK his or her classes will be split.

In all the non gamefair shows all over Ireland dogs and bitches are split up. This is to suit the customers and give everyone a fair chance irespective of the judges preference he is there to judge all breeds. What you are saying is jack russels had preference over other breeds, you make it look like that is why the jack russel got champion of show. It doesn't matter how far a judge has to travel, as i have done so myself. A lot alot of small shows are for charity, unlike yours. A little bit of advice , shows are run for the paying public not for the judge!

 

Of course it is not why the Jack Russell got Champion and of course everyone had a fair chance. You could argue if the JRs could only qualify in big classes whereas someone could qualify in a class of two or three - it was unfair to the Jack Russells. As I explained it is quite common at KC shows to give the specialist judge extra classes and competitors there don't complain - it is just that if someone is a specialist they are likely to draw a bigger entry. Most shows in NI are not run with split classes but with similar classes to our shows.

 

Now some facts : 1. It is a fact that we put more back into the prize funds of our shows than probably any organisers of events in the UK or Ireland. 2. The organising clubs take all of the proceeds and we encourage them to make a substantial donation to a charity. 3 On a personal basis Irene and I support a whole range of charity shows and events of all kinds and we also help the chairty shows and others by giving them qualifiers for our prestige events - in fact I cannot think of anyone who approached us for sponsorship for a charity event or show that was refused assistance. 4. it costs a great deal of money to bring a judge across and they give of their time - a little courtesy of trying to attract a good entry for them is appreciated by anyone who is judging. 5. We give the paying public excellent value at our events in terms of excellent prize funds, good facilities, good judges, good entertainment, a great range of exhibitors and value for money discounts. 6. As I said we are looking at splitting classes when the classes justify a split - we will look at this after we see the entry at BIrr.

And here is a fact for you , these are not KC shows , these are working shows and all dogs are judged on their wortking ability.

 

Sorry NOT a fact - the dogs are not judged on their working ability they are judged on their looks, conformation, condition etc. You cannot judge a dog's working ability by looking at it or handling it. In fact the dogs are judged much as they would be at a KC show.

I disagree with you on this matter, you judge them on whether they are fit for purpose or not. A terrier must be able to fit up to a fox within reason. If what you say about KC shows being similar maybe the I.W.T.F would not have much interest in being at your show in the future. It looks like you might be looking for a qualifier for kruffs at birr. This is nothing personal i'm just a working terrier man and want fair play for all working dogs.

Again you appear to wish to find something to criticise - KC judges are also supposed to judge for 'fit for purpose' a fairly elusive and highly subjective. Obviously things such as size are part of conformation.

 

You started off this line of discussion asking why we split dog & bitches in the Jack Russell classes at Shanes. I gave you an answer and stated that IF ENTRIES JUSTIFIED IT WE WOULD LOOK AT SPLITTING SEXES FOR CLASSES AGAIN AFTER BIRR .

 

It appears that what you really wanted to do was to find something to criticise about our event at Birr as you have now proferred advice on how our judges should judge; on how to run our shows and treat our customers, how dogs should be judged at shows for their working ability and finally giving advice to the IWTF. Although we are the most experienced game fair organisers in the world - 50 fairs over 34 years and have been running terrier shows for longer than most clubs in Ireland, we do take cognisance of suggestions on how to improve any facet of our events.

 

But we have been running working terrier & lurcher shows for 32 years and we pick judges who we think have displayed competence and know what they are doing AND we welcome the formation of the IWTF and welcome their presence at our events. I should like to know of what basis of experience that you consider yourself competent to offer advice on this whole range of issues including telling the IWTF what they should and shouldn't do.

 

I'm not criticising your gamefairs theres nothing wrong with them, the problem i had is with the classes for dogs and bitches as you already know. I do support a lot of dogshows up and down the country and have traveled many times to englad and wales to gamefairs , and i also have judged in and out of the country so i to do know something about it aswell. In reference to the I.W.T.F i am fully behind it. Its just when u mentioned KC and the I.W.T.F i don't see them as compatable in my opinion, but if someone wants to keep KC dogs that is their buisness. I still think gamefairs as big as your one should be able to accomodate dogs and bitches as they do in england and wales.

 

 

Madrarua,

 

As I said we did look at it and will look at it again on the basis of the entry at Birr. I keep working KC registered diogs so I see no problem about supporting both! Now you and I have kicked this argument back and forward But to show I have taken your opinions 'on board' about splitting sexes - and to show there is no hard feelings over our robust exchange I hope to see you at Birr.

[tonytoc11 0]

I'll definitely be heading up one of the days anyway...there'll be about 3 or 4 of us.

[AlbertJ 569]

I'll definitely be heading up one of the days anyway...there'll be about 3 or 4 of us.

 

Tony,

if you want to drop me a mail on irishgamefair@btinternet.com be happy to work out a package deal for 2 days or a group rate.

 

Albertj