Malt 379 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Its a sure sign of a shit manager when players are played out of position. What does it say to the other players on the park if some other player is playing out of position and in your position and you cant get a game...it must cause arguements between the players. I would walk out of a club if my position came available through someone getting injured but another player stepped in my place who didnt even play there. Problem is they haven't got anyone decent who is a natural fit for the left wing of the 4-4-2 they were playing Lab, unless you count Stewart '79 shots, 0 assists, 0 goals for Liverpool all season' Downing. Maybe they need to adapt their system to suit the decent players they have got to get the best out of them, instead of trying to get the players to adapt to a set system. What do I know though! I think your right Malt , its the system , with the players we have, id like too see 5 in midfield , forget this supportin striker carry on , 2 Quick wide men and 3 in the centre pickin up droppin off and attacking i.e. Gerrard , Wilshire and Parker at the present time when fit . that's the sort of thing I'd have gone for. Young would be more effective as a left sided attacker cutting in than an out and out left winger IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well there would be no point in Carroll up front then. You either play 4-4-2 with the Big man/Wee man combo up front or stick 5 in the middle with one of them( Gerrard) sitting forward to assist the lone striker. Unless you want to play 3 at the back but sorry England are not good enough for that. Anyway they have a solid back 4 so i dont think you want to go mucking about with that..... Doesn't Ashley Young play left wing for Man U?... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,505 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I believe that tactically we could go up our own arses if made too complicated...................we do have strengths we just dont play to them.....as much as id like to see us getting the ball on the floor and playing like Spain we dont have the quality to do that,hopefully in future generations and with a different outlook to the game from schoolboy football up,we will start to see that.................but for the time being our strengths are the same old " English way " of power and pace..........i wouldnt pretend to think i know more than Roy Hodgson about tactics but it makes sense to me that playing to our strengths is the long ball game up to Andy Carrol and for Rooney/Walcot or whoever it might be winning the second ball off of him and playing facing the opposition goal instead of a player like Rooney spending most of the game with his back to goal...........defensively i dont think we have an issue and were as solid as any team ive seen in this tournament..............its just going forward we lack ideas......and personally i think thats because we wont fully commit 100% to either the continental way of playing or stick to our own way we,re kind of going half way. Edited June 28, 2012 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,505 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) My lad is the same Gnash but i thought opposite , he is powerfull/ agressive and has a will to win you couldnt buy, knows his limits and plays the game simple , but i was bangin my head watchin him constantly bein played centre mid by coaches usin his aggression/determination to overpower teams, yes he was heads above anyone over here but the higher up the ladder he was going to go i knew he would be out off his depth , i always told him centre half was/would be his position , he plays there now coached by a German who straight away played him there , and it gives him the opportunity to show/prove his worth to a team what he couldnt do in centre mid at the level he plays now, As i always told him Barca have the most gifted players in the world , but Messi , Ineista Xavi ect couldnt play where/like Puyol does for the team ! There is definetly somethin not right in our coachin system which is being overlooked at grass roots level ! I dont know what the yanks way of coaching is like or who they are taking influence from id imagine its quite exciting for them as they are pretty much a blank canvas that can copy and take things from whatever part of the world they like as regards their way of coaching.........sadly over here we,re stuck in a time warp.....id be interested to know how or if your lads game has changed Lanesra and if its for the better.......my boy i would liken to a Steven Gerrard type player nowhere near his level of course but had that same drive and power pushing through midfield,fantastic desire to make things happen and could see situations real quick......who knows he might of never made it anyway but ( probably not with a prick like me on his back every day ) .......but when he was pushed into the back four simply because of his size strength and pace.........imagine what a waste Gerrard would be in a back four yes he might win a lot of balls and crunch a few centre forwards but you definately lose more than you gain.......but unfortunately from what i see its the English way to concentrate on the physicalities of the game before the flair side and until that changes i dont see much change for us at the highest level . Edited June 28, 2012 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well there would be no point in Carroll up front then. You either play 4-4-2 with the Big man/Wee man combo up front or stick 5 in the middle with one of them( Gerrard) sitting forward to assist the lone striker. Unless you want to play 3 at the back but sorry England are not good enough for that. Anyway they have a solid back 4 so i dont think you want to go mucking about with that..... Doesn't Ashley Young play left wing for Man U?... Solid back 4 yes, but out of the 4 only Ashley Cole is capable of playing the ball out to the rest of the team IMO. It ok having the likes of John Terry and Lescott in the middle when it comes to backs against the wall defending, but they were lacking a Rio Ferdinand type character who is capable of starting things off from those possitions like he has been doing for the best part of a decade at Old Trafford. Young does play on the left for utd, but he's got more license to attack and get in the mix as a left sided attacker. I thought it looked he was being asked to play as an out and out winger for England and was needing to turn back onto his right foot to get the ball in which allowed the opposition to close him down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well there would be no point in Carroll up front then. You either play 4-4-2 with the Big man/Wee man combo up front or stick 5 in the middle with one of them( Gerrard) sitting forward to assist the lone striker. Unless you want to play 3 at the back but sorry England are not good enough for that. Anyway they have a solid back 4 so i dont think you want to go mucking about with that..... Doesn't Ashley Young play left wing for Man U?... Solid back 4 yes, but out of the 4 only Ashley Cole is capable of playing the ball out to the rest of the team IMO. It ok having the likes of John Terry and Lescott in the middle when it comes to backs against the wall defending, but they were lacking a Rio Ferdinand type character who is capable of starting things off from those possitions like he has been doing for the best part of a decade at Old Trafford. Young does play on the left for utd, but he's got more license to attack and get in the mix as a left sided attacker. I thought it looked he was being asked to play as an out and out winger for England and was needing to turn back onto his right foot to get the ball in which allowed the opposition to close him down. My theory on boys like Ashley Young. Cracking player that sticks out against weaker oppostion. When playing for Man U he has other gifted players to do the donkey work and slip balls into space where he can exploit standard full backs. When you go to Euros or even better the World Cup your oppostion becomes World Class so your space runs out and you dont look so good. Prime example is another man from Man U and its Darren Fletcher...now i have said as long as he is in the Scotland squad they will qualify for nothing. He gets to be the tackler in the Man U team and asked to slip the ball to better players but sticks on a Scotland jersey and because he plays for Man U he is expected to perform miracles and the lad cant do it. He cant take players on and thread world class passes. Yes he'll have done it but thats not his game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 4,007 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 My lad is the same Gnash but i thought opposite , he is powerfull/ agressive and has a will to win you couldnt buy, knows his limits and plays the game simple , but i was bangin my head watchin him constantly bein played centre mid by coaches usin his aggression/determination to overpower teams, yes he was heads above anyone over here but the higher up the ladder he was going to go i knew he would be out off his depth , i always told him centre half was/would be his position , he plays there now coached by a German who straight away played him there , and it gives him the opportunity to show/prove his worth to a team what he couldnt do in centre mid at the level he plays now, As i always told him Barca have the most gifted players in the world , but Messi , Ineista Xavi ect couldnt play where/like Puyol does for the team ! There is definetly somethin not right in our coachin system which is being overlooked at grass roots level ! I dont know what the yanks way of coaching is like or who they are taking influence from id imagine its quite exciting for them as they are pretty much a blank canvas that can copy and take things from whatever part of the world they like as regards their way of coaching.........sadly over here we,re stuck in a time warp.....id be interested to know how or if your lads game has changed Lanesra and if its for the better.......my boy i would liken to a Steven Gerrard type player nowhere near his level of course but had that same drive and power pushing through midfield,fantastic desire to make things happen and could see situations real quick......who knows he might of never made it anyway but ( probably not with a prick like me on his back every day ) .......but when he was pushed into the back four simply because of his size strength and pace.........imagine what a waste Gerrard would be in a back four yes he might win a lot of balls and crunch a few centre forwards but you definately lose more than you gain.......but unfortunately from what i see its the English way to concentrate on the physicalities of the game before the flair side and until that changes i dont see much change for us at the highest level . Yes i see where we differ , my Lad looked as good as Gerrard when he was playin over here lol , but its a different ball game the higher up the ladder you go and in my head i knew he just lacks somethin to play centre mid at a higher level but thrives at centre half with his atributes and defending is as much an art as attackin only it doesnt get the credit naturally , his coach in the states in Pittsburgh is German , he is playin in Florida this summer in the Premier development league , his coachs there is English , who played in Premier league for Ipswich and a Brazilian who worked for the Brazilian F.A , i think the yanks are tryin to bring coaches in from countrys whos passion is football , my lad said some off the Brazilians he is trainin/playin with every day have really opened his eyes with there ability and that can only be good for him ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Not a bad start to the Italy vs Germany game. Shit the bed, Ballotelli just smashed another one in as I was typing! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
killbilly 17 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Wow - what a strike by the bould Ballo!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stewie 3,387 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 its all ifs and buts now with england so silly to keep talking about them..... .....during a game where the dirty krauts are getting stuffed by a team that could only beat us on penos,,,, :toast: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
the_stig 6,614 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 its all ifs and buts now with england so silly to keep talking about them..... .....during a game where the dirty krauts are getting stuffed by a team that could only beat us on penos,,,, :toast: makes the job england did over 90 mins plus extra time look good ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 its all ifs and buts now with england so silly to keep talking about them..... .....during a game where the dirty krauts are getting stuffed by a team that could only beat us on penos,,,, :toast: makes the job england did over 90 mins plus extra time look good ... Are you lads 45 mins ahead down there............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Difference is England weren't trying to play against them like the Krauts are! Mate of mine on FB just pointed out the irony of Germany getting battered by a black player in Poland! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RossM 8,149 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 And they've started!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stewie 3,387 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 its all ifs and buts now with england so silly to keep talking about them..... .....during a game where the dirty krauts are getting stuffed by a team that could only beat us on penos,,,, :toast: makes the job england did over 90 mins plus extra time look good ... Are you lads 45 mins ahead down there............. true stig.. lab, shut up tw@t.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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