the importance of bond between man and dog

[stewie 3,387]

not my words and not my sport, but so very true in any human/dog team!!!

 

An often overlooked and ignored aspect of training and conditioning dogs is the bond between the trainer and the dog. A trainer who has formed a true bond with their dog is at a distinct advantage over their competition. Time and time again I have seen dogs with near identical skills and traits square off, and seemingly every time the win goes to the trainer and dog with the strongest bond.

So why is bonding so important when training, conditioning and showing our dogs? The bond builds trust between the dog and the trainer. A dog that trusts his trainer is willing to go above and beyond for them. Additionally, a dog that has a true bond with their owner exudes confidence. A confident dog will give 100% to any task because they are sure of themselves and sure of the task at hand while an unconfident dog is typically tentative and nervous. Unconfident dogs are unsure of themselves and their task making it impossible for them to perform to their maximum potential.

Contrary to popular belief, a bond can be formed with a dog at any age. Therapy dogs, police dogs, guide dogs and the like all develop bonds with many people throughout their lives. These bonds are integral to the development of the dog. However, the bond will be strongest with the last person the dog has bonded with. I think it needs to be mentioned that there is a distinct difference between a true bond and a dog that is obedient through fear. While the dog that is obedient to an abusive trainer will do as the trainer asks, it does so nervously and out of pain and fear. This is not ideal and will result in a dog that lacks trust.

Developing a strong bond between a trainer and a dog is not overly complicated or difficult. The first and most important element in developing the bond is love. A dog knows if it is really loved, respected and valued by his trainer. You can’t fake these things. Love is the basis of the bond and from there trust follows. Trust enables us to achieve the true bond that we’ve been talking about. Consistently looking out for and focusing on your dogs best interest helps to build this trust. Many things can destroy trust. Using fear, hitting and being inconsistent with your dog can lead to a dog that does not trust you. A dog that does not fully trust you will never be able to reach their maximum potential.

Building the bond and trust can be achieved in many ways. Playing with your dog is an easy first step. Throwing a ball for your dog, encouraging him as he works the spring pole, letting him chase a flirt pole and so on are great ways to start the bonding process. Even something as simple as hand walking your dog will work. Being with your dog as he experiences new sights and smells is an often overlooked aspect of conditioning a dog. Not only is the hand walking great exercise for the dog and the trainer, it helps to create a bond. This is why I’m such a strong believer in hand walking and not just leaving the dog on a treadmill the entire workout. The most important ingredient to forming the true bond every dog and trainer should have is time. Find whatever it is that you both enjoy doing, and do it!

To conclude, we need to understand that these dogs are not machines. They are living, breathing animals that depend on us to bring out their very best. Don’t just go through the motions and expect your dog to be a super dog on its own. Do your part, give your all and both you and your dog will be the better for it.

 

[GrCh 856]

what words do you use to get your dog going when hunting?

[Ratreeper 441]

I have been watching a few dvds by 'Leerburg' and I think he is missing out on this key skill. All of his training seems to be about breaking a dogs spirit, with his reprimands being very harsh for the offence. His dogs will behave or get physically hurt and fear the pain (he uses shock collars and pronged collars for everything it seems) so he and others like him think because they get quick results they are training well. But even on his dvd he shows a dog turning on him and warns a lot about a dog turning on its handler after a strong correction. Another dick-move is when he advises to keep a dog confiden to a crate until it accepts it cannot escape, even if it is panicking for days and it does not get fed...I mean wtf the crate is supposed to be a place to relax and should go in willingly it is such a simple thing to do...Anyone else have an opinion on this guy?

[bird 10,014]

I have been watching a few dvds by 'Leerburg' and I think he is missing out on this key skill. All of his training seems to be about breaking a dogs spirit, with his reprimands being very harsh for the offence. His dogs will behave or get physically hurt and fear the pain (he uses shock collars and pronged collars for everything it seems) so he and others like him think because they get quick results they are training well. But even on his dvd he shows a dog turning on him and warns a lot about a dog turning on its handler after a strong correction. Another dick-move is when he advises to keep a dog confiden to a crate until it accepts it cannot escape, even if it is panicking for days and it does not get fed...I mean wtf the crate is supposed to be a place to relax and should go in willingly it is such a simple thing to do...Anyone else have an opinion on this guy?

 

well never seen the vid, but he sounds like he trains on over the top (dominance)=fear . When dogs are scared of you, they never really work well for you, they have one eye on you all the while, so they dont get hit .! and dont work proper . And ive had it with dogs, that you have come to heavy on them and they (never) forget, so the dog never works proper. You got to i think be in control of the dog, but be fair with it. The best way to train a dog is with your mouth, not a kick up the arse or wack round the head, when things go wrong, and they do with all dogs as they grow up .Bryn my dog who is 5 in sep is very sensitve, and carnt+wont take respond to heavy hand, and i aint hit him in 3 years, but did when he was 20 months old and he never forget. So the lesson i learnt from it , is hard or soft temp in a dog be fair, and get the dog to be you mate , (not) scared of you and they will do anything for you . but a harder type temp does make it eaiser to train than a sensitve one .well it does for me lol

[Ratreeper 441]

I have been watching a few dvds by 'Leerburg' and I think he is missing out on this key skill. All of his training seems to be about breaking a dogs spirit, with his reprimands being very harsh for the offence. His dogs will behave or get physically hurt and fear the pain (he uses shock collars and pronged collars for everything it seems) so he and others like him think because they get quick results they are training well. But even on his dvd he shows a dog turning on him and warns a lot about a dog turning on its handler after a strong correction. Another dick-move is when he advises to keep a dog confiden to a crate until it accepts it cannot escape, even if it is panicking for days and it does not get fed...I mean wtf the crate is supposed to be a place to relax and should go in willingly it is such a simple thing to do...Anyone else have an opinion on this guy?

 

well never seen the vid, but he sounds like he trains on over the top (dominance)=fear . When dogs are scared of you, they never really work well for you, they have one eye on you all the while, so they dont get hit .! and dont work proper . And ive had it with dogs, that you have come to heavy on them and they (never) forget, so the dog never works proper. You got to i think be in control of the dog, but be fair with it. The best way to train a dog is with your mouth, not a kick up the arse or wack round the head, when things go wrong, and they do with all dogs as they grow up .Bryn my dog who is 5 in sep is very sensitve, and carnt+wont take respond to heavy hand, and i aint hit him in 3 years, but did when he was 20 months old and he never forget. So the lesson i learnt from it , is hard or soft temp in a dog be fair, and get the dog to be you mate , (not) scared of you and they will do anything for you . but a harder type temp does make it eaiser to train than a sensitve one .well it does for me lol

 

I agree, body language and voice commands should suffice. I would give a gentle tap if a dog is fixated on something though to distract them away, but never cause physical pain. My rottie was ridiculous, he didn't seem to feel or show any pain anyway so if I couldn't keep him obedient with my voice I was f****d

[trenchfoot 4,243]

I have been watching a few dvds by 'Leerburg' and I think he is missing out on this key skill. All of his training seems to be about breaking a dogs spirit, with his reprimands being very harsh for the offence. His dogs will behave or get physically hurt and fear the pain (he uses shock collars and pronged collars for everything it seems) so he and others like him think because they get quick results they are training well. But even on his dvd he shows a dog turning on him and warns a lot about a dog turning on its handler after a strong correction. Another dick-move is when he advises to keep a dog confiden to a crate until it accepts it cannot escape, even if it is panicking for days and it does not get fed...I mean wtf the crate is supposed to be a place to relax and should go in willingly it is such a simple thing to do...Anyone else have an opinion on this guy?

 

well never seen the vid, but he sounds like he trains on over the top (dominance)=fear . When dogs are scared of you, they never really work well for you, they have one eye on you all the while, so they dont get hit .! and dont work proper . And ive had it with dogs, that you have come to heavy on them and they (never) forget, so the dog never works proper. You got to i think be in control of the dog, but be fair with it. The best way to train a dog is with your mouth, not a kick up the arse or wack round the head, when things go wrong, and they do with all dogs as they grow up .Bryn my dog who is 5 in sep is very sensitve, and carnt+wont take respond to heavy hand, and i aint hit him in 3 years, but did when he was 20 months old and he never forget. So the lesson i learnt from it , is hard or soft temp in a dog be fair, and get the dog to be you mate , (not) scared of you and they will do anything for you . but a harder type temp does make it eaiser to train than a sensitve one .well it does for me lol

 

I agree Bird. the oversensitivity of some collie Xs has been their down fall. Many people often hark back to their best dog, and its often their first. And usually before they get a second or third dog. I myself have in the past, been guilty of not putting as much into additional dogs, as I have when I had only the one and did not get the best out of my canine companions. As the saying goes, beware the man with one gun.

Edited April 24, 2012 by trenchfoot

[GrCh 856]

"Get on Get On Get on"

[bird 10,014]

I have been watching a few dvds by 'Leerburg' and I think he is missing out on this key skill. All of his training seems to be about breaking a dogs spirit, with his reprimands being very harsh for the offence. His dogs will behave or get physically hurt and fear the pain (he uses shock collars and pronged collars for everything it seems) so he and others like him think because they get quick results they are training well. But even on his dvd he shows a dog turning on him and warns a lot about a dog turning on its handler after a strong correction. Another dick-move is when he advises to keep a dog confiden to a crate until it accepts it cannot escape, even if it is panicking for days and it does not get fed...I mean wtf the crate is supposed to be a place to relax and should go in willingly it is such a simple thing to do...Anyone else have an opinion on this guy?

 

well never seen the vid, but he sounds like he trains on over the top (dominance)=fear . When dogs are scared of you, they never really work well for you, they have one eye on you all the while, so they dont get hit .! and dont work proper . And ive had it with dogs, that you have come to heavy on them and they (never) forget, so the dog never works proper. You got to i think be in control of the dog, but be fair with it. The best way to train a dog is with your mouth, not a kick up the arse or wack round the head, when things go wrong, and they do with all dogs as they grow up .Bryn my dog who is 5 in sep is very sensitve, and carnt+wont take respond to heavy hand, and i aint hit him in 3 years, but did when he was 20 months old and he never forget. So the lesson i learnt from it , is hard or soft temp in a dog be fair, and get the dog to be you mate , (not) scared of you and they will do anything for you . but a harder type temp does make it eaiser to train than a sensitve one .well it does for me lol

 

I agree Bird. the oversensitivity of some collie Xs has been their down fall. Many people often hark back to their best dog, and its often their first. And usually before they get a second or third dog. I myself have in the past, been guilty of not putting as much into additional dogs, as I have when I had only the one and did not get the best out of my canine companions. As the saying goes, beware the man with one gun.

 

your right with colliexs , and more than 1 dog .I do like a clever dog, prob because training is so easy if i am honest. But as you say it can be the down fall from this x as ive said about them, ive had 3 Bryn is my 3rd, and if i get another dog it wont be a colliex. The gsd x grey, from what ive heard are more of a tougher type temp, still very clever so easy to train but (not) over sensitve like the colliex , so thats the way i will go in the future .!

[skycat 6,174]

I've never seen the Leeburg video you are referring to, but I do like how Michael Ellis trains. Admittedly he mostly trains hard, very high drive dogs like Malinois, but he also has a lot of videos for pet owners.

 

The biggest difference between the way that pet or man work dogs are trained, and the way we train our lurchers, is that those trainers want the dog's entire existence to revolve around the owner/handler, whereas we want our dogs to operate as individuals, using their instincts and skills in the field, albeit, still under our control when we need them to be: its a tall order to train a lurcher to be ultra obedient as well as allowing it to use its own judgement/talents/drive to pull down game, work around ferrets etc etc.

 

I truly believe that a lurcher works better when it is not put under pressure from the owner, when it is given the time to learn those skills for itself. You can train too much, and stifle the dog's natural instincts.

 

For me, the bond of trust is the most important, which doesn't mean to say that you can never correct the dog. Most dogs will need correcting at some point in their training, which incidentally, is something that is ongoing throughout a dog's life. Correction needs to match the temperament of the individual dog of course: a quick slap on the bum to make a stubborn dog listen, remind it that you are there, giving an order which may save its life one day may be fine for one dog, but turn another into a gibbering wreck.

 

I can correct even my most sensitive dogs with a tap with the end of the lead, and though it might make the dog jump, it won't break the trust, because the next moment I'm praising the dog for listening to me, really giving it my full attention and praise. The moment the dog turns to look at me, I'm calling it to me with lots of love. They have to respect your word, no matter how sensitive they are, and even wimps may lose the plot and forget to listen every once in a while; as long as the underlying trust and bond is there you won't damage your relationship.

 

Personally, I think it is probably easier to abuse the bond with a really hard dog. They can take so much more, and a full-on, hard-driving pup can drive many people to physical violence out of sheer frustration when they don't have the training skills to harness that drive in the right way. Many dogs grow up hearing the word 'NO!' all the time: don't do this, don't do that. It is hard work to steer such pups in the right way without getting angry with them and you need so much more patience with them than the more sensitive kind. Just my opinion, but we're all different, and react in different ways to our dogs.

[bunnys 1,236]

the best paragraph i have read on here for a good while lurchewr 1 , and the the best handlers know and do seem to put decent animals out over and over again this aint luck ,part his knowing ones individual animal and knowing which aproach will suit the temperament without the need for violence , break the trusted bond and for me that can be the start of a sinking ship . atb bunnys.

[bird 10,014]

the best paragraph i have read on here for a good while lurchewr 1 , and the the best handlers know and do seem to put decent animals out over and over again this aint luck ,part his knowing ones individual animal and knowing which aproach will suit the temperament without the need for violence , break the trusted bond and for me that can be the start of a sinking ship . atb bunnys.

 

 

 

spot on

[dixiebop 125]

The Temperment and Expectations at the other end of the leash,has in my view a bigger input.

Seen the ,Softly,softly,he,s a baby approach,while the Terriers doing cartwheels and taking the pish !,an the other Dog walking at the side,looking like it's been obiedient,but its tails down,arse down,waiting for a cracking in the chops if it goes in front...

[forest of dean redneck 12,023]

I have been watching a few dvds by 'Leerburg' and I think he is missing out on this key skill. All of his training seems to be about breaking a dogs spirit, with his reprimands being very harsh for the offence. His dogs will behave or get physically hurt and fear the pain (he uses shock collars and pronged collars for everything it seems) so he and others like him think because they get quick results they are training well. But even on his dvd he shows a dog turning on him and warns a lot about a dog turning on its handler after a strong correction. Another dick-move is when he advises to keep a dog confiden to a crate until it accepts it cannot escape, even if it is panicking for days and it does not get fed...I mean wtf the crate is supposed to be a place to relax and should go in willingly it is such a simple thing to do...Anyone else have an opinion on this guy?

 

well never seen the vid, but he sounds like he trains on over the top (dominance)=fear . When dogs are scared of you, they never really work well for you, they have one eye on you all the while, so they dont get hit .! and dont work proper . And ive had it with dogs, that you have come to heavy on them and they (never) forget, so the dog never works proper. You got to i think be in control of the dog, but be fair with it. The best way to train a dog is with your mouth, not a kick up the arse or wack round the head, when things go wrong, and they do with all dogs as they grow up .Bryn my dog who is 5 in sep is very sensitve, and carnt+wont take respond to heavy hand, and i aint hit him in 3 years, but did when he was 20 months old and he never forget. So the lesson i learnt from it , is hard or soft temp in a dog be fair, and get the dog to be you mate , (not) scared of you and they will do anything for you . but a harder type temp does make it eaiser to train than a sensitve one .well it does for me lol

 

I agree Bird. the oversensitivity of some collie Xs has been their down fall. Many people often hark back to their best dog, and its often their first. And usually before they get a second or third dog. I myself have in the past, been guilty of not putting as much into additional dogs, as I have when I had only the one and did not get the best out of my canine companions. As the saying goes, beware the man with one gun.

 

your right with colliexs , and more than 1 dog .I do like a clever dog, prob because training is so easy if i am honest. But as you say it can be the down fall from this x as ive said about them, ive had 3 Bryn is my 3rd, and if i get another dog it wont be a colliex. The gsd x grey, from what ive heard are more of a tougher type temp, still very clever so easy to train but (not) over sensitve like the colliex , so thats the way i will go in the future .!

your right bird,the gsd x is not so sensitive or needy as the collie x from what i can see.

[Ratreeper 441]

I've never seen the Leeburg video you are referring to, but I do like how Michael Ellis trains. Admittedly he mostly trains hard, very high drive dogs like Malinois, but he also has a lot of videos for pet owners.

 

The biggest difference between the way that pet or man work dogs are trained, and the way we train our lurchers, is that those trainers want the dog's entire existence to revolve around the owner/handler, whereas we want our dogs to operate as individuals, using their instincts and skills in the field, albeit, still under our control when we need them to be: its a tall order to train a lurcher to be ultra obedient as well as allowing it to use its own judgement/talents/drive to pull down game, work around ferrets etc etc.

 

I truly believe that a lurcher works better when it is not put under pressure from the owner, when it is given the time to learn those skills for itself. You can train too much, and stifle the dog's natural instincts.

 

For me, the bond of trust is the most important, which doesn't mean to say that you can never correct the dog. Most dogs will need correcting at some point in their training, which incidentally, is something that is ongoing throughout a dog's life. Correction needs to match the temperament of the individual dog of course: a quick slap on the bum to make a stubborn dog listen, remind it that you are there, giving an order which may save its life one day may be fine for one dog, but turn another into a gibbering wreck.

 

I can correct even my most sensitive dogs with a tap with the end of the lead, and though it might make the dog jump, it won't break the trust, because the next moment I'm praising the dog for listening to me, really giving it my full attention and praise. The moment the dog turns to look at me, I'm calling it to me with lots of love. They have to respect your word, no matter how sensitive they are, and even wimps may lose the plot and forget to listen every once in a while; as long as the underlying trust and bond is there you won't damage your relationship.

 

Personally, I think it is probably easier to abuse the bond with a really hard dog. They can take so much more, and a full-on, hard-driving pup can drive many people to physical violence out of sheer frustration when they don't have the training skills to harness that drive in the right way. Many dogs grow up hearing the word 'NO!' all the time: don't do this, don't do that. It is hard work to steer such pups in the right way without getting angry with them and you need so much more patience with them than the more sensitive kind. Just my opinion, but we're all different, and react in different ways to our dogs.

 

In his defense, I agree with a lot of sentiments but his underlying message seems to be about breaking a dog down, so it fears mistakes. I agree with what you say, you can correct a dog but it is pointless not matching it to the individual. I don't see any benefit in dozens of small corrections when a single one with meaning sets the boundries, which is what Leerburg is saying but he takes it too far imo. So a collie needs a look, whereas a patterdale might need a slap on the arse to get anywhere to use breeds as examples. But he uses the same techniques with pet dogs as he is using with his working malinois, which I understand needing a firmer hand. A great example of his method of training a dog not to jump up. My own preference is to push a dog away so it respects my space, or turn my back and ignore it depending on the situation/dog (the latter being the first option usually). The Leerburg way is to grab the dogs feet and pinch its toes until it screams WHILST being very welcoming and friendly towards it. None of that makes sense to me, it is simultaneousely being conditioned to fear pain for jumping up whilst being rewarded for doing so, I really don't get why he considers it necessary.

[gnasher16 31,602]

There seems to be so much bullshit on the subject of dog training........i came to the conclusion many years ago that its not necessarily something that can be learned from a book or in many cases from watching somebody or listening to somebody......................the best i ever saw with a dog was a man with very little academic knowledge and on the whole not a great deal of experience.......but boy could this man connect with a dog.........i could spend 6 months working with a dog and not get the same bond or level of connection this man could get in 6 days !.........Some things you either have or you dont and for whatever reason i dont....... as much as ive tried i can get a decent connection with any dog but certainly not to that level where the dog is willing to die for you................what the skill is i dont know i alwys thought i had a deep understanding of what go,s on in the head of the dogs i like.......but this fella was on a completely different level,very impressive to watch and can certainly be the difference between a very good dog and a great dog.

Edited April 24, 2012 by gnasher16