breeding fractions

[moon pig 39]

Im not too good when it comes to maths which you will realise reading this topic, so forgive me if im askin a bit of a daft question .

 

But i know when putting a 1/4x to a 1/2x you will produce 3/8 5/8 wich can generally throw a few more racey pups than a 1/2x litter, but isnt 3/8 5/8 still pretty much equivelent to 1/2 (obviously its not the same as half but there isnt much of a difference)with 3/8 been slightly more than a 1/4 and 5/8 been slightly more than half is still isnt far off the 1/2 mark is it?

 

If you can see where im coming from?

 

 

Thanks

[paulus 26]

Im not too good when it comes to maths which you will realise reading this topic, so forgive me if im askin a bit of a daft question .

 

But i know when putting a 1/4x to a 1/2x you will produce 3/8 5/8 wich can generally throw a few more racey pups than a 1/2x litter, but isnt 3/8 5/8 still pretty much equivelent to 1/2 (obviously its not the same as half but there isnt much of a difference)with 3/8 been slightly more than a 1/4 and 5/8 been slightly more than half is still isnt far off the 1/2 mark is it?

 

If you can see where im coming from?

 

 

Thanks

mars

[MissRhianL 70]

Alot of people get confused when fractions are involved in the dogs breeding. Not many people know sometimes exactly how much of what is in the dog they just say its a collie greyhound or bull greyhound.

 

If you put a 1/4 over 1/2 cross then it makes 5/8 3/8 dog not exactly a 3/4 1/4 and not exactly 1/2 its just in between.

 

But even though you bred a litter to be 5/8 3/8 type dogs some of the litter will throw more one side than the other and some of them will throw roughly an equal amount.

 

Hope that makes things more clearer to you.

[romany52 313]

After the first cross, which is exactly 50/50 there is no way of telling what % of what is in a dog as the genes are passed randomly. Meaning, in theory you might have a 3/8 5/8 but actually there is no such thing.

[beast 1,884]

Yep, the only way to absolutely guarantee how a dog will turn out (genetically, i mean) is to get a genuine first cross. even then, remember that most of the breeds we use to create lurchers vary a lot (collies, greys, bulls all come in a variety of shapes and sizes). As soon as you breed on from the first cross you are, to a degree, guessing. i've seen 3/4 bred collies come out just about pure grey, and just about half-cross looking. and if you add a third or fourth breed to the mix then the hotch-potch can come out just about anything. i've seen things that looked like rough-coated bull terriers, or big-headed collies, or short-legged deerhounds. but generally there is enough sighthound genes come through that you don't find too many freaks.if you get a pup from a long line and they appear to breed relatively true, you can still get odd "sports" showing up in litters.there is no guarantee in breeding, and percentages mean very little.

[paulus 26]

Yep, the only way to absolutely guarantee how a dog will turn out (genetically, i mean) is to get a genuine first cross. even then, remember that most of the breeds we use to create lurchers vary a lot (collies, greys, bulls all come in a variety of shapes and sizes). As soon as you breed on from the first cross you are, to a degree, guessing. i've seen 3/4 bred collies come out just about pure grey, and just about half-cross looking. and if you add a third or fourth breed to the mix then the hotch-potch can come out just about anything. i've seen things that looked like rough-coated bull terriers, or big-headed collies, or short-legged deerhounds. but generally there is enough sighthound genes come through that you don't find too many freaks.if you get a pup from a long line and they appear to breed relatively true, you can still get odd "sports" showing up in litters.there is no guarantee in breeding, and percentages mean very little.

best to go by the parents performance rather than % of what ever, thats why its best after the 1st cross to call them lurcher to lurcher

[stabba 10,745]

a 3/4 is a 3/4..a 3/8 is a 3/8 ...why do you think percentages are percentages..because they are just that...to say a 3/8 5/8 isnt a 3/8 5/8 is just madness..of course it is because these are the percentages put into the cross...by saying not then you throw the whole percentage theory out the window. so if i put a first collie/grey over a firstx bull/grey are not the resulting offspring 1/2 grey..1/4 collie...1/4 bull..of course they are..just because some of the resulting offspring may not not look like it ..it doesnt detract from the fact that these are what they are..atb stabba

[tinytiger 872]

a 3/4 is a 3/4..a 3/8 is a 3/8 ...why do you think percentages are percentages..because they are just that...to say a 3/8 5/8 isnt a 3/8 5/8 is just madness..of course it is because these are the percentages put into the cross...by saying not then you throw the whole percentage theory out the window. so if i put a first collie/grey over a firstx bull/grey are not the resulting offspring 1/2 grey..1/4 collie...1/4 bull..of course they are..just because some of the resulting offspring may not not look like it ..it doesnt detract from the fact that these are what they are..atb stabba

i know they are what they are but they can inherit between 0 and 50 % of any grandparent- theres nearly been an odd pup out in any litter ive seen

[Gaz_1989 9,539]

So as unlikely as it is, genetically, is it possible for a saluki/grey/ x collie/bull/grey to come out looking like full collie?

[bunnys 1,236]

genetics are random , and the fact his they can throw any side of the fractions percentages , one may get threequarter breds throwing to the half x and vice versa , percentages should be seen has a general idea of the make up of the type , not has some seem to think , has gospell ,the thrre quarter on paper his has his but times half xs types coming through some throw to the dam some to the sire and on the odd occasions to the three quarter beyond this its any guess what fractions are there , the general idea of best to best and dont worry about the fractions his i would say his a better bet ,atb bunnys.

[romany52 313]

So as unlikely as it is, genetically, is it possible for a saluki/grey/ x collie/bull/grey to come out looking like full collie?

 

No, because in this case, there are only collie genes on one side of the mateing so you couldn't get any more than a maximum of 50% collie genes in the pups, though this would be unlikely to happen in practice.

[Bosun11 537]

I give up on fractions, best left to drug dealers. After a 5/8ths I'd simply call 'em lurchers...!

[romany52 313]

I give up on fractions, best left to drug dealers. After a 5/8ths I'd simply call 'em lurchers...!

 

Imagine it like this, you've got 100 blue marbles in a bucket, these represent the genes of a 100% pure greyhound. Now 100 red marbles in another bucket, these are collie, 50 marbles out of each bucket into a third bucket = 1 first cross pup. You now have a bucket containing 50 red and 50 blue marbles, mix them thoroughly, this is your first cross collie greyhound bitch. Make up another bucket the same to represent a first cross collie greyhound dog. From each of these mixed buckets make up another bucket, 50 marbles from each, to represent a pup ,but because the genes are passed at random you have to do it with your eyes closed ! You will see that you can end up with any ratio of blue to red marbles in your bucket, hence any ratio of collie to greyhound genes in a second cross.

Edited April 23, 2012 by romany52

[moon pig 39]

Thanks for the replys everyone