RSPCA Investgate TV Dog Trainner

[Simoman 110]

I trained my dogs the Woodhouse way, can't beat it.....

 

SSSSIT!

 

 

:laugh: Many of the dogs i trained and sorted out would of loved her methods, one blow down the nose and she would of lost her face

[6pack 60]

YES!!!!

 

I disagree. They see me as a dog as much as they see the cat as one.

 

Where's the question Simo? lol.

 

Fear aggression needs a completely different approach, and the breeds also need to be taken into account.

Handling fear aggression with a heavy hand will only increase the fear and increase the problems.

Very few dogs are born aggressive towards people - they would be no use to us if that were the case - but guarding a valuable resource is natural to any animal including humans.

It's not about them thinking you're a dog FFS....let's agree to disagree shall we!

 

ok but I like questioning different points of view.

[Lab 10,979]

YES!!!!

 

I disagree. They see me as a dog as much as they see the cat as one.

 

Where's the question Simo? lol.

 

Fear aggression needs a completely different approach, and the breeds also need to be taken into account.

Handling fear aggression with a heavy hand will only increase the fear and increase the problems.

Very few dogs are born aggressive towards people - they would be no use to us if that were the case - but guarding a valuable resource is natural to any animal including humans.

It's not about them thinking you're a dog FFS....let's agree to disagree shall we!

 

ok but I like questioning different points of view.

........or your a woman and want to be right all the fecking time.......

[6pack 60]

YES!!!!

 

I disagree. They see me as a dog as much as they see the cat as one.

 

Where's the question Simo? lol.

 

Fear aggression needs a completely different approach, and the breeds also need to be taken into account.

Handling fear aggression with a heavy hand will only increase the fear and increase the problems.

Very few dogs are born aggressive towards people - they would be no use to us if that were the case - but guarding a valuable resource is natural to any animal including humans.

It's not about them thinking you're a dog FFS....let's agree to disagree shall we!

 

ok but I like questioning different points of view.

........or your a woman and want to be right all the fecking time.......

 

That helps too

 

I have 8 dogs in the house at the moment.

I am domineering of them, my bigger size helps ensure that, but I don't need to dominate them.

[skycat 6,173]

Firstly, he did not kick the dog, he moved his foot towards it to show that he had the floor: pushing his occupation of the space to show the dog that it had to stay back. Then the little shit bit his foot What would I have done in that situation? Well, I wouldn't have put a bowl full of food down on the floor and set the dog up to be shown who is boss. I've had little shits like that: terriers, and I've won them over by dropping one piece of food in the bowl at a time while I eat bits of food myself. I feed myself, I drop a bit in the bowl, dog eats that and looks to me for more, and we repeat the scenario over and over until the dog no longer thinks that I'm going to steal its food and I can leave the bowl anywhere, stand next to it and drop food into it with no food guarding at all. But this method can take a long time, and I'm not saying that it would work with every single dog.

Like someone already said, it is more about the owner's general relationship with the dog. That dog obviously didn't have a job to do, didn't have a purpose in life other than to be a little shit. I feel sorry for most pet dogs as they must be bored rigid for most of their lives, and unless, like Casso said, they have owners who actually do something with the dogs to use up energy and then relax, many are living with so much tension and unused energy that they are just coiled springs waiting for something to happen.

 

Also, whilst it is not just about dominance, I do believe that dogs need to know that they are not 'above' their owners, or anyone in the household, and that can only come from proper pack discipline from day one. On the other hand, I was cringing when I saw what that 'trainer' did. What if some muppet with a dodgy Rottweiler had tried that at home: he would have had more than a few dents in the end of his trainer! A lot of dog owners wouldn't have the brains to realise that they couldn't apply such techniques to all dogs. That what was so bad about him showing his 'techniques' on prime time TV.

 

If you love a pup, treat it fairly, don't play silly buggers taking away its food to show it who is boss, then there should never be a problem over food. I never take my dogs' food away, but I can if I want to. I may move their bowl from one place to another with my foot: the dog just follows its bowl. It knows that I'm not trying to take the food away. There has to be trust between owner and dog. If there is trust, and the dog knows that you respect it as a living thing, then there is no need for aggression. By trust as a living thing, I mean that you need to understand the dog, be able to read its body language, understand the sort of things it might be scared of. Know when to reassure it, and when to stamp your foot and lay down the law.

 

I had a Saluki lurcher a few years ago who, as a 15 week old pup, decided that she wouldn't get off the armchair, and snarled at me. I got a soft cushion and belted her with it until she moved off the chair. She didn't try it again. It didn't hurt her in the slightest, and I didn't risk getting bitten by using my hand, nor did I make her scared of my hand: all she felt was a buffeting by a soft cushion, which whilst mildly unpleasant, showed her that she couldn't have the chair when I said Get Off. I wouldn't have tried that on an adult dog, nor anything much older. This pup also snarled at me when I started to groom her gently with a soft brush. Then she did get a back hander across the top of the head, with my hand. She didn't resist again. She was trying it on, trying to tell me that I was lower in the pack than her so had no right to groom her when I pleased.

 

It's all about understanding what different ranks in the pack are allowed to do. And whilst dogs don't see us as other dogs, the pack thing is important IMO. I only have to see one of my older bitches stand in front of a chair that she wants, and the dog already there will just get up and move, because she is superior in the pack and can sit where she wants. She wouldn't do that to me, though she might look longingly at me if I'm sitting where she wants to sit. I just ignore her if she does that and she'll go and lie on the floor if there are no chairs free.

 

I always notice which dogs jump up on to a chair the moment it becomes free: they are often the ones which want to rise higher in the pack: sleeping in a physically higher position shows superiority: the best and safest places are off the floor, away from draughts, with better vision of the surrounding areas, as well as being more comfortable.

 

Kennel dogs don't present the same sort of problems in that respect as their boundaries are much more clearly defined as they are excluded from the human den, so stand less chance of climbing the social ladder. That's why I don't have terriers living in the house: they nearly always want to be top dogs, and would come unstuck against the big dogs. I tried it a few times with one old terrier, as she got old and arthritic, but it was only a matter of time before she started guarding chairs and snarling at lurchers who tried to sit on her.

 

None of my dogs would dare growl at me for any reason: I love them lots, sit with them, play with them, work them, groom them, mess about in the summer in the water, but ultimately they have to respect me no matter what. But they all give me long and good eye contact: being able to have long eye contact with a dog means that it really trusts you. I'm not talking about the hard stare a dog gives when it is sizing up a potential rival it meets down the park, but the sort of look which is soft, loving, (at the risk of sounding daft) Being able to understand the look in a dog's eyes is very important< it dictates what action you take when correcting or training the dog. And some people can own dogs for a lifetime and not understand that.

 

Just a few thoughts, some may disagree, but I find that the way I operate works for me and the pack.

 

Oops: didn't realise I'd babbled on so much!

[6pack 60]

Firstly, he did not kick the dog, he moved his foot towards it to show that he had the floor: pushing his occupation of the space to show the dog that it had to stay back. Then the little shit bit his foot What would I have done in that situation? Well, I wouldn't have put a bowl full of food down on the floor and set the dog up to be shown who is boss. I've had little shits like that: terriers, and I've won them over by dropping one piece of food in the bowl at a time while I eat bits of food myself. I feed myself, I drop a bit in the bowl, dog eats that and looks to me for more, and we repeat the scenario over and over until the dog no longer thinks that I'm going to steal its food and I can leave the bowl anywhere, stand next to it and drop food into it with no food guarding at all. But this method can take a long time, and I'm not saying that it would work with every single dog.

 

Has worked fine with me with all the dogs through my house too. But I suppose it wouldn't make good television.

Adding to the food bowl is a positive for the dog and it does not become worried around it's food.

Take away constantly and a dog may well become more protective of it's source.

 

I disagree with your grooming analogy.

I wouldn't see the back hander as a dominant action to lower pack rank, just a telling off that it's actions were not acceptable, a consequence of it's actions, and a lesson learnt. Or positive punishment in operant conditioning.

[Simoman 110]

Crikey, are we going to get into Pavlov and talk of bells THL has some deep interesting threads today, much better than the usual shit of "show us yer bull x"

[Ideation 8,216]

That is one horrible little brat of a dog.

[jasper65 6]

I know this isn't a good comparisom but I know when I take up a hawk if I show any anger or shout I'm fighting a losing battle. I know people do it differently but everytime I pick a Hawk up from the time its feeding off the glove it gets food on my aproach, its not long before the bird looks forward to me aproaching it in anticipation of a meal, ok I can pick the bird up without any food and walk around with it while going through its initial Manning/Trainning but then it doesn't want to be there and consiquently will jump around trying to fly away giving the bird a negative response being forced to do somthing it doesn't want to do, basically when the bird is picked up somthing good happens ie: it gets fed. this reinforces a positive response in the reasoning of excepting the Falconer.

 

its completly different I know as obviously a Hawk hasn't got no where near the same inteligence as a dog, but surely if a bird with half the inteligence of a dog can be manned down and learn certain trainning techniques a dog should do it hands down useing the reward method? I know its a different ball game but wouldn't a simular technique work in all the trainning of dog? even one thats picked up some pretty bad habbits such as the JR in the vid clip?

 

I know certain breeds need different methods in their trainning but that also goes for some birds which are more highly strung than others. Don't get me wrong as I have no idea about this which is why I'm asking the question from people far more experienced in dog handling than I will ever be .

[Simoman 110]

I know this isn't a good comparisom but I know when I take up a hawk if I show any anger or shout I'm fighting a losing battle. I know people do it differently but everytime I pick a Hawk up from the time its feeding off the glove it gets food on my aproach, its not long before the bird looks forward to me aproaching it in anticipation of a meal, ok I can pick the bird up without any food and walk around with it while going through its initial Manning/Trainning but then it doesn't want to be there and consiquently will jump around trying to fly away giving the bird a negative response being forced to do somthing it doesn't want to do, basically when the bird is picked up somthing good happens ie: it gets fed. this reinforces a positive response in the reasoning of excepting the Falconer.

 

its completly different I know as obviously a Hawk hasn't got no where near the same inteligence as a dog, but surely if a bird with half the inteligence of a dog can be manned down and learn certain trainning techniques a dog should do it hands down useing the reward method? I know its a different ball game but wouldn't a simular technique work in all the trainning of dog? even one thats picked up some pretty bad habbits such as the JR in the vid clip?

 

I know certain breeds need different methods in their trainning but that also goes for some birds which are more highly strung than others. Don't get me wrong as I have no idea about this which is why I'm asking the question from people far more experienced in dog handling than I will ever be .

 

 

Spot Tony, i know nothing about bird temperaments but as you say, its about altering the methods to the individual animal..............

[skycat 6,173]

I think its a good comparison. You have to train certain species with reward: dolphins and parrots for example.

 

6pack: I hear what you are saying re grooming. But the whole grooming thing is linked to pack status as well. Dominant animals may well put themselves in front of a lower ranking animal because they want grooming, but watch a bitch tell a puppy off if she is cleaning it up and it resists her attempts. She may well, if pinning it down doesn't work, give it a telling off, an open mouth growl and even a quick bite, not hard, to let it know that she is in charge and won't tolerate such behaviour. I suppose you could say that this is just telling the pup that its actions aren't acceptable in the way you describe. But you won't see a properly reared pup attempt to tell a grown dog off for grooming it either.

 

I also watch my senior bitches pin pups down, not even their own pups, and give them a good ear wash, and put them in their place if they try and resist. To me, its all part of teaching a pup its place in the pack.

 

But I also find it very interesting to see certain pups as they reach maturity. There are some who just won't stay in their place: i.e. at the bottom of the pack, and who have that certain air about them which means they will be a force to be reckoned with as adults. They don't behave aggressively with other dogs, but they have that confidence and power about them which says don't mess with me. I really like working with that sort of dog. They are usually more intelligent than the 'followers' and quicker to learn new things, how to handle themselves with prey, and generally are more aware, more evolved as individuals. I'm not saying that they are all better workers, as the 'followers' can be good workers as well, but there's something about a top dog which makes life much more interesting.

[Simoman 110]

Different dogs have diiferent temperaments same as people, and often its about matching the correct dog to the correct owner, i can't gel with submissive types and in all honesty prefer a pushy little shit that may test my patience and increase my hair loss but they seem to suit me............

[skycat 6,173]

Different dogs have diiferent temperaments same as people, and often its about matching the correct dog to the correct owner, i can't gel with submissive types and in all honesty prefer a pushy little shit that may test my patience and increase my hair loss but they seem to suit me............

 

That's why I get on so well with Dill and Schuck. Though they're not really pushy as such, just demanding

[Bulldogman 55]

Real interesting read...especially when on shift and being paid to read it...lol

 

This guy is 21, no formal qualifications and is linked to the shows producer in a back handed way he got his mug on tv and through his inexperience the media slot has blown up in his face!! The RSPCA have got more pubilicity and more grannies will be including them in their wills, bet the RSPCA are hoping for a third bad winter!!

 

My AB is a super dominant dog, renowned at shows for his confidence and walking in and scent marking everything and standing like cock of the north. Same dog in my house will move out of the way for my two year old boy who took his food bowl off him yesterday whilst i was doing something else and turned a blind eye for two seconds....Result dog stood there and accepted it...Why?? because since day one he has been treated as a dog, never allowed to sit on the sofa and get his head over mine, not allowed in/on beds....he has been walked/run...fed regularly and played with when i choose....i make a point of taking his toys off him and dictatiing when playtime starts/ends.

 

Most of the idiots with nasty little or big dogs treat them as substitute babies, set no ground rules so the dog knows what is expected and what is allowed. When the dog matures it is confused about the pack dynamics and in this scenario they can become fearful and aggressive and dominance issues occurr especially around food/toys. Breed reserach is also a factor, my ab is less work than a jrt for 99% of the time...little dogs are conveniently sized but their ego's arent.

 

treat a dog as a dog, keep the household settled and the dog in a routine for feeding/walking etc and in 99% of cases no issues. Where issues then occurr each dog has to be viewed independently with breed charateristics taken into account as well as actions of the humans in the household.

 

For the record, if that jrt had bitten me like that, i would get me shovel out...

[Kay 3,709]

Real interesting read...especially when on shift and being paid to read it...lol

 

This guy is 21, no formal qualifications and is linked to the shows producer in a back handed way he got his mug on tv and through his inexperience the media slot has blown up in his face!! The RSPCA have got more pubilicity and more grannies will be including them in their wills, bet the RSPCA are hoping for a third bad winter!!

 

My AB is a super dominant dog, renowned at shows for his confidence and walking in and scent marking everything and standing like cock of the north. Same dog in my house will move out of the way for my two year old boy who took his food bowl off him yesterday whilst i was doing something else and turned a blind eye for two seconds....Result dog stood there and accepted it...Why?? because since day one he has been treated as a dog, never allowed to sit on the sofa and get his head over mine, not allowed in/on beds....he has been walked/run...fed regularly and played with when i choose....i make a point of taking his toys off him and dictatiing when playtime starts/ends.

 

Most of the idiots with nasty little or big dogs treat them as substitute babies, set no ground rules so the dog knows what is expected and what is allowed. When the dog matures it is confused about the pack dynamics and in this scenario they can become fearful and aggressive and dominance issues occurr especially around food/toys. Breed reserach is also a factor, my ab is less work than a jrt for 99% of the time...little dogs are conveniently sized but their ego's arent.

 

treat a dog as a dog, keep the household settled and the dog in a routine for feeding/walking etc and in 99% of cases no issues. Where issues then occurr each dog has to be viewed independently with breed charateristics taken into account as well as actions of the humans in the household.

 

For the record, if that jrt had bitten me like that, i would get me shovel out...

 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head '' nasty LITTLE dogs '' , LITTLE = BABY , in the eyes of such a lot of people they just dont see anything other than its a little dog , so for some bizarre reason they treat it as an infant child , I guess thats why such a lot of women keep small breeds primarily as companion dogs

 

You just dont get the same way of thinking generally with people who keep bigger breeds