what to look for in a collie?

[Guest born to run1083]

for me there's a list and if it's all not there then it's no good for me, I want good stamina and recovery, a good brain but highly driven, with alot of fire in there belly, great feet, and most of all worked, not so much on sheep but on actual quarry, on testing ground. would of wanted it to of been ferreting and lamped hard to test the collie under pressure and most of all season after season. my dam to my first x had all the above apart from she also went around sets with the old man as she would even draw. with collies I think it's the most important breed that needs to be tested to the max as if you find a food hard collie there really hard to beat

 

So you don't think the life of a good hill farm collie is hard or testing enough season after season being worked on livestock day in day out?

aye it does test them, there stamina, recovery, feet and coat but not in a hunting environment. for me I want It tested in the trade I do and been put under pressure in that trade chasing down quarry. as at the end of the day I'm not having it to chase sheep around I've got it to hunt and there's a big difference in a herding brain to hunting brain. just my view.

[morton 5,369]

Years of selective breeding,stamina and brains in abundance,excellent feet and conformation,biddable and easily trained,what other dog as as much to offer as the Working Collie?.

[Penda 3,367]

A gentleman not to far from me called goff used to be a cow hand on a farm up the road he used to train and work collies he used to do that fly ball aswell at crufts he used to train those coliies to a T my jaw would be dropping ive saw dogs train and then ive saw dogs train and his dogs were trained! i used to work in a pet shop he used to leave the dogs sitting out side the shop while he went and got his groceries the dogs didnt have a lead or collar he,d just tell them to waite and il be back in abit the dogs were like statues amazing to see never saw them in the field but if i was doing collie greyhound 1st crosses defonatley cosider one of his dogs

[Ideation 8,217]

for me there's a list and if it's all not there then it's no good for me, I want good stamina and recovery, a good brain but highly driven, with alot of fire in there belly, great feet, and most of all worked, not so much on sheep but on actual quarry, on testing ground. would of wanted it to of been ferreting and lamped hard to test the collie under pressure and most of all season after season. my dam to my first x had all the above apart from she also went around sets with the old man as she would even draw. with collies I think it's the most important breed that needs to be tested to the max as if you find a food hard collie there really hard to beat

 

So you don't think the life of a good hill farm collie is hard or testing enough season after season being worked on livestock day in day out?

aye it does test them, there stamina, recovery, feet and coat but not in a hunting environment. for me I want It tested in the trade I do and been put under pressure in that trade chasing down quarry. as at the end of the day I'm not having it to chase sheep around I've got it to hunt and there's a big difference in a herding brain to hunting brain. just my view.

 

Not being funny but herding is just hunting without the actual killing. Plenty of hill farmers train their dogs to separate and pin/hold a sheep. They can't exactly herd them all down off the hill and into a pen just to get to the one they need to check. And although i fully understand what you are saying regarding having a 'hunting' collie and that's an ideal, but being realistic, how many collies out there are used exclusively for hunting a range of quarry, and how many of the best collie grey lurchers have been bred from a dog with what you call a 'herding brain' that is 'just used to chase sheep'. Also i would think that a 'properly' worked hill collie working sheep and cattle, will do more hours in the field, run more miles and handle more animals than any 'hunting collie'.

[Ideation 8,217]

One of the biggest detriments to the standard of working collies (in general) was the invention and use of the quad bike. . . . . .

[whin 463]

SAW ALL SORTS OF WORKING HILL COLLIES BEARDIE TYPE AND IRISH COLLIES THERES ABIG DOG NEAR FARM HE IS ACRACKER NOT HYPER SENSIBLE KILLS VERMIN HERDS CATTLE JUST THE [bANNED TEXT] SIZE AND STAMP TO BREED A LURCHER

[scothunter 12,609]

A working collie brings good feet, constitution, stamina and coat....... And for me working means a good farm dog, not a robotic trial dog......

 

what do you mean by that simon.not a dig btw genuinely interested.so these dogs we see on the tv one man and his dog,are they no good for everyday working?

[Ideation 8,217]

A working collie brings good feet, constitution, stamina and coat....... And for me working means a good farm dog, not a robotic trial dog......

 

what do you mean by that simon.not a dig btw genuinely interested.so these dogs we see on the tv one man and his dog,are they no good for everyday working?

 

Good farm dog needs to think on it's own feet, bit more up and at em. Trial dog needs to follow precise instructions. Also a farm dog needs to work all day, a trial dog for a very short time. Obviously some farm dogs make trial dogs, but not often i think.

 

Same with gun dogs.

[Simoman 110]

Many farmers use their "work" dogs for everyday use and also choose to compete in trials, others do little real work but are specialists at a simple trial, more trained for one task rather than the diverse aspects of farmwork and expected to use initiative.......

[Guest born to run1083]

for me there's a list and if it's all not there then it's no good for me, I want good stamina and recovery, a good brain but highly driven, with alot of fire in there belly, great feet, and most of all worked, not so much on sheep but on actual quarry, on testing ground. would of wanted it to of been ferreting and lamped hard to test the collie under pressure and most of all season after season. my dam to my first x had all the above apart from she also went around sets with the old man as she would even draw. with collies I think it's the most important breed that needs to be tested to the max as if you find a food hard collie there really hard to beat

 

So you don't think the life of a good hill farm collie is hard or testing enough season after season being worked on livestock day in day out?

aye it does test them, there stamina, recovery, feet and coat but not in a hunting environment. for me I want It tested in the trade I do and been put under pressure in that trade chasing down quarry. as at the end of the day I'm not having it to chase sheep around I've got it to hunt and there's a big difference in a herding brain to hunting brain. just my view.

 

Not being funny but herding is just hunting without the actual killing. Plenty of hill farmers train their dogs to separate and pin/hold a sheep. They can't exactly herd them all down off the hill and into a pen just to get to the one they need to check. And although i fully understand what you are saying regarding having a 'hunting' collie and that's an ideal, but being realistic, how many collies out there are used exclusively for hunting a range of quarry, and how many of the best collie grey lurchers have been bred from a dog with what you call a 'herding brain' that is 'just used to chase sheep'. Also i would think that a 'properly' worked hill collie working sheep and cattle, will do more hours in the field, run more miles and handle more animals than any 'hunting collie'.

me old man used to keep working collies, had 4 I can remember and don't wanna know how many he had over the 30 years I can honestly say when I was young and learning the sport I used my old mans collies and just cos they work the land exceptionally well doesn't mean they make good dogs for hunting we had one, max could do anything we asked work sheep, cattle even chickens lol and was tested in the field for hunting he wasn't the best sheep dog but was the best out the 4 I can remember at hunting. I'm speaking from my own experiences and they've taught me that just because it works livestock well it doesn't mean it makes a good hunter, that's why I said it's a different brain so to speak, the collie is also known for baying it's stock to eliminate them moving off and most nip to put them in line but normally the better the herding instinct you lose some of that prey drive so to speak. just my view but would only have a collie x if tested to the trade I work my dogs in. and lucky to have that right here

[scothunter 12,609]

cheers simon and jai.

[Ideation 8,217]

for me there's a list and if it's all not there then it's no good for me, I want good stamina and recovery, a good brain but highly driven, with alot of fire in there belly, great feet, and most of all worked, not so much on sheep but on actual quarry, on testing ground. would of wanted it to of been ferreting and lamped hard to test the collie under pressure and most of all season after season. my dam to my first x had all the above apart from she also went around sets with the old man as she would even draw. with collies I think it's the most important breed that needs to be tested to the max as if you find a food hard collie there really hard to beat

 

So you don't think the life of a good hill farm collie is hard or testing enough season after season being worked on livestock day in day out?

aye it does test them, there stamina, recovery, feet and coat but not in a hunting environment. for me I want It tested in the trade I do and been put under pressure in that trade chasing down quarry. as at the end of the day I'm not having it to chase sheep around I've got it to hunt and there's a big difference in a herding brain to hunting brain. just my view.

 

Not being funny but herding is just hunting without the actual killing. Plenty of hill farmers train their dogs to separate and pin/hold a sheep. They can't exactly herd them all down off the hill and into a pen just to get to the one they need to check. And although i fully understand what you are saying regarding having a 'hunting' collie and that's an ideal, but being realistic, how many collies out there are used exclusively for hunting a range of quarry, and how many of the best collie grey lurchers have been bred from a dog with what you call a 'herding brain' that is 'just used to chase sheep'. Also i would think that a 'properly' worked hill collie working sheep and cattle, will do more hours in the field, run more miles and handle more animals than any 'hunting collie'.

me old man used to keep working collies, had 4 I can remember and don't wanna know how many he had over the 30 years I can honestly say when I was young and learning the sport I used my old mans collies and just cos they work the land exceptionally well doesn't mean they make good dogs for hunting we had one, max could do anything we asked work sheep, cattle even chickens lol and was tested in the field for hunting he wasn't the best sheep dog but was the best out the 4 I can remember at hunting. I'm speaking from my own experiences and they've taught me that just because it works livestock well it doesn't mean it makes a good hunter, that's why I said it's a different brain so to speak, the collie is also known for baying it's stock to eliminate them moving off and most nip to put them in line but normally the better the herding instinct you lose some of that prey drive so to speak. just my view but would only have a collie x if tested to the trade I work my dogs in. and lucky to have that right here

 

Fairplay mate, i'm not knocking your thoughts at all. But realistically, you can't argue that many very very good collie greys are bred from 'mere' herding dogs, rather than collies that have been 'hunting tested'? Bryn, for example. Ideally if i owned a collie that i planned to breed lurchers from i WOULD hunt it, as you say, makes sense. But i think it's a rarity.

 

By baying i assume you don't mean barking? Cos i've never really come across that. But i know what you mean, they hold them at bay. Mind you i've watched plenty of cattle dogs get stuck in to cows and bully them about. Also witnessed some very good hill collies pulling sheep down and holding them until the farmer got there to check the sheep over (feet, dag etc).

 

You are right r.e prey drive, the farmers aim is to keep and make use of the dogs 'hunting' ability, whilst stopping it making a kill. All herding is, is hunting, you just have to watch a pack of wild dogs, or wolves hunt, to see/know that.

 

You have a good bitch there as well, so it obviously worked, but i wouldn't call her a 'hard' dog? She seems to use the collie brain a lot more than the prey drive, just from what i have seen.

 

Alllllllllso, when you cross in the right grey, you get prey drive by the sack full, haha. But you need the collie to balance it out and fill the gaps.

 

P.S - Finns in sickbay again mate :-(

[wuyang 513]

There was a vast difference in the hunting instinct with regards to working rabbits between both my border collies (both were from good working stock). Both would hunt, but one was a natural grafter. To me it would have to be off a good steady working collie with a good temperament. But i do think within a litter there can be quite a bit of variation in there natural hunting instinct.

[patterdalejoel 669]

i would always steer clear of merle collie crosses personally, as i live in the dales in thick sheep country and have never ever seen a merle collie working, the only ones i have seen are kc with their hips grinded to shit. what are you looking for in terms of body shape? you see stock small very hairy collies, and long thin leggy collies, smooth haired. do people consider this or are the feet/working/temperment more important?

cheers, joel.

[darbo 4,779]

i think a lot of things would be important,but the main one would be a good temperament.