gnasher16 31,410 Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 gnash come to the gallops one morning then go to a race meeting and then tell me it ain't a hard work sport i don't think you have ever witnessed the day in the life of a nh jockey i would compare there fitness levels to any top sportsmen darts snooker are pastimes that have become tv sports and gained there top personalities fame , recently a jockey christian Williams was unseated and thrown over a fence putting his hands out to stop his fall he was traveling so fast when the para medics reached him they had to pull him out of the ground his arm had broke at the elbow and the bone had gone through his skin and into the ground these lads are as game as the come , come to the stable lads boxing nights , oh and the next day they told Chris his other arm was broke , darts might get cramp Gonetoearth i think your missing my point mate....i have every respect for jockeys and the hard work/dedication it takes....im sure its a very tough and dangerous sport.....but sportsman cant be judged on how tough something is....or dangerous.....was Eddie the eagle a great sportsman ? you wouldnt catch me flying through the air like he did bollocks to that.....was Barry Sheene a great sportsman ? it dont come much more dangerous than that.....every sport has its different skills/risks/dedication. Ive recently taken up golf....compared to the other sports ive competed in this is literally a stroll in the park,so why is Tiger Woods thought of as " a great sportsman "....he takes no risk,its not particularly hard work,no more dedication than anything else etc etc..... Jockeys im sure train hard and dedicate themself and eveything else you say,but the skill level is comparatively low to something like darts/snooker....even golf.....i competed in powerlifting after i packed up boxing,it was a combination of dedication,hard work and technical ability.....but zero skill level !....so all sports require different qualities,if the sportsman who trained the hardest took the title every time then for me Steve Redgrave would win it every time as i saw a little of what he went through,and when it comes to gameness.........he was awe inspiring ! Look im not disputing McCoys winning of the award,i just think Phil Taylors accomplishments within his own sport are just as deserving.....whether Darts/Snooker/Golf are sports or not i wouldnt like to say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 4,007 Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 What has me watching them got too do with it , you cant be questioned can you , maybe he is cheered the loudest and rightly so he has been the 1 player who playing for his country means something, but i will say again ENGLAND supporters when it suited them SLAUGHTERED HIM AND WISHED HIS KIDS A TERRIBLE DEATH, am i wrong to put a point over if it goes against what your sayin ? if what i said was wrong fair enough but you just move the goal posts by sayin "if he was hated for a couple off months big deal" ~ I BET IT WAS A BIG DEAL TO HIS FAMILY WHEN IT WAS HIS CHILDREN BEING TARGETED . Slow down mate,what you getting excited about !....we,re just having a chat about a subject that obviously interests us both,the way a chat works is you make a point then i make a point.....nobody wins or loses so no need to get all competetive and start talking about moving goalposts Yes fans gave him stick thats just the nature of football fans.....but the fact is....apart from possibly Bobby Moore....Beckham is the most popular footballer ever to where an England shirt....am i wrong ?....the point about watching England games is over the tv you obviously dont get the atmosphere within a ground,im simply saying when your at a ground when England are playing its very easy to tell who the most popular and appreciated England player is,and thats over quite a few years. spot on mate , never meant to come over like that but re~read what i wrote and it does come across like that :headshot:: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 gnash come to the gallops one morning then go to a race meeting and then tell me it ain't a hard work sport i don't think you have ever witnessed the day in the life of a nh jockey i would compare there fitness levels to any top sportsmen darts snooker are pastimes that have become tv sports and gained there top personalities fame , recently a jockey christian Williams was unseated and thrown over a fence putting his hands out to stop his fall he was traveling so fast when the para medics reached him they had to pull him out of the ground his arm had broke at the elbow and the bone had gone through his skin and into the ground these lads are as game as the come , come to the stable lads boxing nights , oh and the next day they told Chris his other arm was broke , darts might get cramp Gonetoearth i think your missing my point mate....i have every respect for jockeys and the hard work/dedication it takes....im sure its a very tough and dangerous sport.....but sportsman cant be judged on how tough something is....or dangerous.....was Eddie the eagle a great sportsman ? you wouldnt catch me flying through the air like he did bollocks to that.....was Barry Sheene a great sportsman ? it dont come much more dangerous than that.....every sport has its different skills/risks/dedication. Ive recently taken up golf....compared to the other sports ive competed in this is literally a stroll in the park,so why is Tiger Woods thought of as " a great sportsman "....he takes no risk,its not particularly hard work,no more dedication than anything else etc etc..... Jockeys im sure train hard and dedicate themself and eveything else you say,but the skill level is comparatively low to something like darts/snooker....even golf.....i competed in powerlifting after i packed up boxing,it was a combination of dedication,hard work and technical ability.....but zero skill level !....so all sports require different qualities,if the sportsman who trained the hardest took the title every time then for me Steve Redgrave would win it every time as i saw a little of what he went through,and when it comes to gameness.........he was awe inspiring ! Look im not disputing McCoys winning of the award,i just think Phil Taylors accomplishments within his own sport are just as deserving.....whether Darts/Snooker/Golf are sports or not i wouldnt like to say. OK gnash lets come from a different angle then, skill passion, dedication, natural ability, all the latter would be used in describing a great sportsman but define sportsman track and field football ,rugby, cricket sports were fitness age wight, play a big part sport in the true sense of the word a jockey has all these and more 2nd row etc rugby player in a scrum face 20 stone plus, opponents charging at them they rarely get the lime light are they any less sportsmen than your Johnny Wilkinson's , the definition of a great sportsman is his capability at his chosen sport reaching the top and staying there , sir Henry cooper great or great for Nealy beating a great , john Lyon 10 times ABA champion great amuture boxer or great sportsman , round the world yachts men sportsman :HMO: Chester barns table tennis darts snooker , pub and club games now is it a knack or a skill to reach the top in these games , a modern boxer can view all his opponent's fight on vids etc to help his tactics will it improve his ability will it give him the edge , mccoy can get on a horse and get an extra something out of a horse that's why he got 291,000 votes he's got that some thing that makes him stand out he is a winner the sport of kings is flat racing , national hunt is dangerous were the men and women have to be fit agile , skillful and dedicated like any sport if you not your a journey man the also ran , 15 times champion jockey over 3000 winners i think that speaks for its self Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rake aboot 4,936 Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 Aye What`s darts got to do with sport ??????? no connection there at all really, it`s a game for when you`re pissed. ATB Oh and Cav was robbed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,410 Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 spot on mate , never meant to come over like that but re~read what i wrote and it does come across like that :headshot:: Its easily done mate....im not too great with words sometimes so if it came across as arsey it wasnt meant to.....just a natter for me thats all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,410 Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 OK gnash lets come from a different angle then, skill passion, dedication, natural ability, all the latter would be used in describing a great sportsman but define sportsman track and field football ,rugby, cricket sports were fitness age wight, play a big part sport in the true sense of the word a jockey has all these and more 2nd row etc rugby player in a scrum face 20 stone plus, opponents charging at them they rarely get the lime light are they any less sportsmen than your Johnny Wilkinson's , the definition of a great sportsman is his capability at his chosen sport reaching the top and staying there , sir Henry cooper great or great for Nealy beating a great , john Lyon 10 times ABA champion great amuture boxer or great sportsman , round the world yachts men sportsman :HMO: Chester barns table tennis darts snooker , pub and club games now is it a knack or a skill to reach the top in these games , a modern boxer can view all his opponent's fight on vids etc to help his tactics will it improve his ability will it give him the edge , mccoy can get on a horse and get an extra something out of a horse that's why he got 291,000 votes he's got that some thing that makes him stand out he is a winner the sport of kings is flat racing , national hunt is dangerous were the men and women have to be fit agile , skillful and dedicated like any sport if you not your a journey man the also ran , 15 times champion jockey over 3000 winners i think that speaks for its self Yep cant argue with anything youve said.....the only thing i think your slightly overlooking is this...hard work,dedication,sacrifice etc is great,but ANYONE can do that....it doesnt equate to being a great sportsman.....great sportsman are BORN not MADE.......if it was just a case of who worked the hardest or who wanted it most then natural skill and talent could be overcome by hard work and dedication......and as you know,they cant !.....I dont believe any great sportsman become great without some kind of gift they were born with,thats what puts them on a different level......that gift doesnt get better the more you work at it......its just made the best use of by the highest level of fitness/strength/concentration levels etc. Muhammed Ali was born with a gift.... hard work,dedication fitness etc etc took him to greatness Bjorn Borg was born with a gift.....same as above took him to greatness. In relation to this conversation....Phil Taylor was born with a gift....practise,dedication,mental ability etc took him to greatness. What gift is a Jockey born with ?......i say again,im not putting down Jockeys as i accept greatness in sport takes many forms......but for me the main foundation of a great sportsman that puts them on another level is the gift they were born with that the rest of us cannot achieve with simple hard work and dedication. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zigzag dan 784 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 OK gnash lets come from a different angle then, skill passion, dedication, natural ability, all the latter would be used in describing a great sportsman but define sportsman track and field football ,rugby, cricket sports were fitness age wight, play a big part sport in the true sense of the word a jockey has all these and more 2nd row etc rugby player in a scrum face 20 stone plus, opponents charging at them they rarely get the lime light are they any less sportsmen than your Johnny Wilkinson's , the definition of a great sportsman is his capability at his chosen sport reaching the top and staying there , sir Henry cooper great or great for Nealy beating a great , john Lyon 10 times ABA champion great amuture boxer or great sportsman , round the world yachts men sportsman :HMO: Chester barns table tennis darts snooker , pub and club games now is it a knack or a skill to reach the top in these games , a modern boxer can view all his opponent's fight on vids etc to help his tactics will it improve his ability will it give him the edge , mccoy can get on a horse and get an extra something out of a horse that's why he got 291,000 votes he's got that some thing that makes him stand out he is a winner the sport of kings is flat racing , national hunt is dangerous were the men and women have to be fit agile , skillful and dedicated like any sport if you not your a journey man the also ran , 15 times champion jockey over 3000 winners i think that speaks for its self Yep cant argue with anything youve said.....the only thing i think your slightly overlooking is this...hard work,dedication,sacrifice etc is great,but ANYONE can do that....it doesnt equate to being a great sportsman.....great sportsman are BORN not MADE.......if it was just a case of who worked the hardest or who wanted it most then natural skill and talent could be overcome by hard work and dedication......and as you know,they cant !.....I dont believe any great sportsman become great without some kind of gift they were born with,thats what puts them on a different level......that gift doesnt get better the more you work at it......its just made the best use of by the highest level of fitness/strength/concentration levels etc. Muhammed Ali was born with a gift.... hard work,dedication fitness etc etc took him to greatness Bjorn Borg was born with a gift.....same as above took him to greatness. In relation to this conversation....Phil Taylor was born with a gift....practise,dedication,mental ability etc took him to greatness. What gift is a Jockey born with ?......i say again,im not putting down Jockeys as i accept greatness in sport takes many forms......but for me the main foundation of a great sportsman that puts them on another level is the gift they were born with that the rest of us cannot achieve with simple hard work and dedication. Gnash , I think youve contradicted yourself there mate , Ali had a gift and when he put the gloves on it came out , Borg had a gift and when he picked up a raqcuet it came out , McCoy has a gift and when he climbs on a horse it comes out . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 OK gnash lets come from a different angle then, skill passion, dedication, natural ability, all the latter would be used in describing a great sportsman but define sportsman track and field football ,rugby, cricket sports were fitness age wight, play a big part sport in the true sense of the word a jockey has all these and more 2nd row etc rugby player in a scrum face 20 stone plus, opponents charging at them they rarely get the lime light are they any less sportsmen than your Johnny Wilkinson's , the definition of a great sportsman is his capability at his chosen sport reaching the top and staying there , sir Henry cooper great or great for Nealy beating a great , john Lyon 10 times ABA champion great amuture boxer or great sportsman , round the world yachts men sportsman :HMO: Chester barns table tennis darts snooker , pub and club games now is it a knack or a skill to reach the top in these games , a modern boxer can view all his opponent's fight on vids etc to help his tactics will it improve his ability will it give him the edge , mccoy can get on a horse and get an extra something out of a horse that's why he got 291,000 votes he's got that some thing that makes him stand out he is a winner the sport of kings is flat racing , national hunt is dangerous were the men and women have to be fit agile , skillful and dedicated like any sport if you not your a journey man the also ran , 15 times champion jockey over 3000 winners i think that speaks for its self Yep cant argue with anything youve said.....the only thing i think your slightly overlooking is this...hard work,dedication,sacrifice etc is great,but ANYONE can do that....it doesnt equate to being a great sportsman.....great sportsman are BORN not MADE.......if it was just a case of who worked the hardest or who wanted it most then natural skill and talent could be overcome by hard work and dedication......and as you know,they cant !.....I dont believe any great sportsman become great without some kind of gift they were born with,thats what puts them on a different level......that gift doesnt get better the more you work at it......its just made the best use of by the highest level of fitness/strength/concentration levels etc. Muhammed Ali was born with a gift.... hard work,dedication fitness etc etc took him to greatness Bjorn Borg was born with a gift.....same as above took him to greatness. In relation to this conversation....Phil Taylor was born with a gift....practise,dedication,mental ability etc took him to greatness. What gift is a Jockey born with ?......i say again,im not putting down Jockeys as i accept greatness in sport takes many forms......but for me the main foundation of a great sportsman that puts them on another level is the gift they were born with that the rest of us cannot achieve with simple hard work and dedication. not a national hunt man then gnash MCcoy is gifted you would not understand , so ill leave it at that its a bit like F1 gnash all the cars basicly the same but some one with talent can just get that little bit more and was born with it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Leeview 792 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 gonetoearth you obviously understand the NH scene well and I totally agree with the dedication these jockeys have for their sport is it not also true that they are all equal as far as payment for riding in a race ie every jockey is on the same rate per ride? Im sure it used to be £65 per ride Y.I.S Leeview Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,410 Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Gnash , I think youve contradicted yourself there mate , Ali had a gift and when he put the gloves on it came out , Borg had a gift and when he picked up a raqcuet it came out , McCoy has a gift and when he climbs on a horse it comes out . But thats my whole point,what is the gift it takes to ride a horse ?....how much skill does it take ?....im not being a prick saying its easy or it dont take any skill....im sure it does.....but come on,do you really think a skill such as Ali was blessed with can be compared with the skill a jockey may have....i admit im probably quite ignorant to exactly what is needed to be a great jockey.....but i cant help thinking its not on the same level skill wise as many other sports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,410 Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 not a national hunt man then gnash MCcoy is gifted you would not understand , so ill leave it at that its a bit like F1 gnash all the cars basicly the same but some one with talent can just get that little bit more and was born with it I understand any sportsman who reaches the top of his sport is gifted.....i just fail to see where the skill is in riding a horse.....i admit im totally ignorant to the sport,i know nothing about it at all......im just throwing a few thoughts round in my own nut about it thats all......so your probably right in all you say Im not altogether convinced on sportsman becoming greats in sports where the equipment is as important,if not more important as the sportsman himself.....Motor sport,Horses etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zigzag dan 784 Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Gnash , I think youve contradicted yourself there mate , Ali had a gift and when he put the gloves on it came out , Borg had a gift and when he picked up a raqcuet it came out , McCoy has a gift and when he climbs on a horse it comes out . But thats my whole point,what is the gift it takes to ride a horse ?....how much skill does it take ?....im not being a prick saying its easy or it dont take any skill....im sure it does.....but come on,do you really think a skill such as Ali was blessed with can be compared with the skill a jockey may have....i admit im probably quite ignorant to exactly what is needed to be a great jockey.....but i cant help thinking its not on the same level skill wise as many other sports. Gnash , most jump jockeys will start riding at a very young age , in Pony Clubs , then out Hunting , Point to Points etc , Im sure if you spoke to someone who saw McCoy at that age they would tell you his horsemanship , understanding of the horse , was plain too see then , just like people who were involved with Beckham , Wilkinson , etc would say the same things , it has to be a gift as at that age they are just a raw talent . Anyway have a good Xmas and stop going down the Hammers so much , its ruining your judgement of sporting greats !!! LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twobob 1,507 Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 why? he was never even a particularly good footballer! Anyway the title is "personality" and he sure doesnt have any of that either. I find it quite funny sometimes listening to some folks understanding of top level sport .... For somebody who " was never even a particularly good footballer ".....he represented his country more times than any other outfield player in English football history,played for 3 of the greatest clubs in world football Man Utd,Real Madrid,Milan............ Ive followed England games over the years Beckham has been by far the most popular player with fans over the years,and rightly so.....or maybe the worlds great managers and clubs didnt know what they was doing eh Agree with most of what you say capello hesky world cup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.