romany gypsy luchers of old

[ferrety f 23]

:clapping: cracking read..

[boyo 1,398]

well put riohog and by the way the pups are starting to look like crackers fingers crossed.

[slips 114]

me grunfather use to tell me didnt care to much for hare . if you add ya logar and a good hochie dog and set ya sasters right the pot was always full the ole photo of the dog sitting on front of the wagon was a bow fronted greyhound type called rita . may be he was a bull x man haha as a kid me dads dogs was rough coated he liked sauklixgrey x beddlintonxgrey

[super_si 0]

top read mate, atb

[riohog 5,621]

well put riohog and by the way the pups are starting to look like crackers fingers crossed.

glad to hear ! must admit i didnt wright that i found it on the internet , so cant really take any credit

[Leeview 787]

well put riohog and by the way the pups are starting to look like crackers fingers crossed.

glad to hear ! must admit i didnt wright that i found it on the internet , so cant really take any credit

Very good read riohog the reference to greyhounds running on the track greyhounds were coursing under rules 200yrs before the first track was opened

Y.I.S Leeview

[riohog 5,621]

yes they were , bit like the ones in this picture........

[riohog 5,621]

well put riohog and by the way the pups are starting to look like crackers fingers crossed.

and here is one we bred ! 4/to 5 months old sal x

[pongo1976 0]

great read mate

 

:thumbs:

[shepp 2,285]

well put riohog and by the way the pups are starting to look like crackers fingers crossed.

 

It's cut and pasted

[johnrthrfrd 223]

The Gypsys dog!!

 

IT is said that the Romany Gypsy was the fist people to breed the coursing lurcher' and this is true!!

 

years ago' most people would use greyhounds or whippets to hunt' hares and rabbits,' but the greyhound can only run for a short time and then looses its stamina and the whippet' can only run for a shorter time still' and was mainly used only to catch rabbits'…

 

The other trouble with theses dogs' was that a good hare will twist and turn' and jink'. theirs an old saying' A hare can spin on a penny' and modern greyhounds were bread for running flat out at high speed around tracks' and the whippet was bread to run in a strait line' all'though the old coursing grayhounds were beter than the track greyhound!.

 

A whippet is faster for 20 yards than a greyhound''. so that made it the perfect rabbit dog'

and better when crossed with the bedlington terrier' but lacked in stamina for hare coursing.

 

To feed the average family of romany gypsy's 'you needed a good all round pot filler'

and that's just what they came up with''.. the lurcher''

 

what the Romany's did was very clever'

first they took the fastest dog you could get' the greyhound' and then took one of the cleverest 'and most mobil' and best stamina dog in the world ' the border collie and crossed the two'.. the border collie was famous for running up and down the hills and dales of cumbria' Scotland or the harshest land in briton'.. they had to be agile' to round up sheep in to pens and keep them in flocks' and they had plenty stamina' cos they would have to run for miles over every type of terrain some times all day''' they were also a very cleaver dog to obey the whistle commands of a shepard. the only thing the collie lacked was speed'' but that's were the greyhound came in'..

 

so now you had all the best qualities of both dogs in one!! … but this wasn't good enough''..

the hare is one of the fastest animals on british soil'' and it takes a cracking grayhound to match a good winter hare for speed''..

so crossing a fast grayhound with a colly was making the dog slower?

so you have to take the pups of a first cross greyhound / collie and then cross it back with a greyhound' then you have the famous…

Three qorter greyhound collie'!! ..now you had your perfect all round dog'.. speed'' stamina' brains' manoverbility' and the craft of an old Gypsy' man!!…

 

Always breed speed on top' this means you put the greyhound dog to the collie bitch'

then breed the greyhound collie bitch back to a greyhound dog again. this keeps the speed but you still have the qualities of the collie.'

 

breading a good lurcher was by no means cut and dry'' most times' even after all that time and trouble it takes to bread a lurcher'. the dog you end up with my still be no good for coursing?

 

Too slow?

Wont strike?

Lacking in stamina?

Cant bend?....

or just all round useless!!

 

so a good lurcher is worth its wait in gold to a gypsy man.' after all they feed whole familys'..my old uncle fed a family of 7 children with the famous dog' Sailor''

 

Its very hard to get a dog with all the talents needed to be part of the family!!…

 

and a good lurcher was part of the family' well it was to the Gypsy men' who would spend hours walking over fields with there dog''

 

a man could stand with his lurcher and just point to were he thought he could seen a hare' and his dog would run to were you were pointing' always looking back to make sure he was on the right track' as he was stalking faster towards what he thought would be his next chase!!

 

this was handy when travelling with the wagons' … a man could sit high up on his wagon and see over the fields looking for a hare.' then he could point his dog towards his next meal'

 

 

also it was very important that a dog could hunt by its self'' a hare will flop so low on its belly' so that a normal man could almost stand on one but wouldn't know it was there'.. it takes a good trained eye to spot a hare' but a dog with a good nose will find him before you do''

 

the dog also has to be good at jumping if he cant jump you will loose qorry'..

fields have fences or brick walls 'and a crafty hare will run strait to stone wall or a fence' so the gypsy dog has to be able to jump and then jump again'' iv seen a dog jump a fence and land striking the hare dead''

 

which leads me to the last most important thing a Gypsy mans dog must do'' and that's strike'..

its no good having a dog that just chases game' but wont try to kill it!!…

. a good dog will throw its self at the hare and try to catch it in its teeth'' this is called the strike'' iv seen a dog chasing a hare and throw its self and roll 15 feet on the ground with the force of the strike but still had the hare in his mouth'.. a good strike is a clean kill' no distress to the animal'..

 

after the dog catch's the hare it should always carry the quarry back to the owner. its no use having a dog that runs away with the catch? or just leaves it were it caught it? . this is no good if your sitting on a wogon' or if your standing on the out side of the field' and dont have permission to go into the field'. so the last thing you need is to go running about picking up the hare!!

 

 

so if a gypsy mans dog could hunt' jump' kill' and carry'.. the dog was a champion' and you will hear in many a gypsy achin tan or pub the famous saying'' Hunt Jump Kill and Carry.''

 

Theirs a lot of old coursing sayings' and tricks that the gypsy people use .''

 

Never have a dog with a ring tail,' they they have terrible balance and look ugly.''

 

A dog is no good that gives mouth (barks') when chasing the hare. this happens if the dog is having trouble catching its quarry' and just alerts any farmers or gamkeepers. and allso means the dog has no hart.'

 

Years ago the old Gypsy men would learn a dog to go away' when he shouted it to come to him''

and come to him' when he shouted it to leave him' this was handy if caught pochin by muskrers farmers or game keepers'.

 

To stop a dog from attacking sheep'..muzzle his mouth and tie his legs and leave him in a small pen full of sheep'.. the sheep will run wild around the small pen and all over the dog'

this will give the dog a good healthy fear of the sheep.'

 

but its better to learn a dog when its a pup'' you can learn the pup by walking with it in or' around sheep and live stock'

or just as with the old dog' put the pup in a small pen full of sheep'

you wont need to muzzle or tie the pup' it will still grow up respecting livestock....

 

The three quarter greyhound collie' is the oldest and best known of lurcher breeds' but over the years' there have been many different types of lurcher.'

 

all breeds' below are cross (X) with greyhound

 

The Deerhound x

The Whippet x

The Bull x

The Staghound x

Bedlington x

and many many more..

 

 

But their is a breed of lurched that has taken over from the old greyhound collie' and that's the fantastic saluki greyhound.'

 

The saluki is used by the Bedouin Arabs' for hunting the desert hares' and they were agile good striking' and can run at a decent pace'..but they have one skill that puts it ahead of most other breeds' and that's stamina,' a suluki can run for massive distances without any trouble.'

 

so to take a dog like the suluki and cross it with the fastest dog in the word' the greyhound!!

and you have a modern day killing machine' and that's just what the Gypsy did'

 

the suluki greyhound' will not hunt with his nose' but he has grate eye sight and will stand with his owner and can spot a hare from a grate distance'' and were as you would only want to slip an ordinary lurcher from about 50 feet at most from a hare'. you can slip a saluki lurcher from a field away' and the dog will course and catch a hare''.. the suluki has so much stamina' that he can run and run until the hare is worn out''..

the saluki lurcher dose have problems in small fields were he cant use his long stretching stride'..

but in an open field' its a hard dog to match'

 

 

Theirs an old saying' Three out of three.''

it takes a good dog to run three and kill three hares'…

3 hares out of 3' that's the bench mark for an any good dog,'' you don't need to catch any more hares' because there is a lot of meat on a hare,' and you never kill more than you need to eat.''

 

the lurcher was a both a working tool and a friend to the romany Gypsy.'

and along with hares they could allso catch rabbits. i have seen them find headghogs and strike a feasant siting on its seat'

they were a usefull gard dog to protect the wagons.

they were hardy and could live out under a wagon in the harshest winters.

they were easy to feed' and had an excellent temperament around children.

over all the lurcher was bread by Gypsy's to hunt and provide' and that's just what they have done for many years' … the lurcher is' a true Romany Gypsy juckel...

 

 

 

Hunt' jump' kill' and carry!!

 

 

 

 

excellent post very interesting.

atb john.

 

 

 

 

Get on there!

[romany52 313]

Depends on what was available to nick.

 

I'm a 58 year old Romany and I've never nicked a dog in my life ! Had a few nicked in all that time, though oddly enough always by your kind.

[riohog 5,621]

well put riohog and by the way the pups are starting to look like crackers fingers crossed.

 

It's cut and pasted

well if you read the thread properly you will see i told you i didnt write it !!!

[foxlamper80 28]

excellent read riohog thanks for sharing

[Spicerlife 11]

On 06/10/2010 at 21:04, riohog said:

The Gypsys dog!!

 

IT is said that the Romany Gypsy was the fist people to breed the coursing lurcher' and this is true!!

 

years ago' most people would use greyhounds or whippets to hunt' hares and rabbits,' but the greyhound can only run for a short time and then looses its stamina and the whippet' can only run for a shorter time still' and was mainly used only to catch rabbits'…

 

The other trouble with theses dogs' was that a good hare will twist and turn' and jink'. theirs an old saying' A hare can spin on a penny' and modern greyhounds were bread for running flat out at high speed around tracks' and the whippet was bread to run in a strait line' all'though the old coursing grayhounds were beter than the track greyhound!.

 

A whippet is faster for 20 yards than a greyhound''. so that made it the perfect rabbit dog'

and better when crossed with the bedlington terrier' but lacked in stamina for hare coursing.

 

To feed the average family of romany gypsy's 'you needed a good all round pot filler'

and that's just what they came up with''.. the lurcher''

 

what the Romany's did was very clever'

first they took the fastest dog you could get' the greyhound' and then took one of the cleverest 'and most mobil' and best stamina dog in the world ' the border collie and crossed the two'.. the border collie was famous for running up and down the hills and dales of cumbria' Scotland or the harshest land in briton'.. they had to be agile' to round up sheep in to pens and keep them in flocks' and they had plenty stamina' cos they would have to run for miles over every type of terrain some times all day''' they were also a very cleaver dog to obey the whistle commands of a shepard. the only thing the collie lacked was speed'' but that's were the greyhound came in'..

 

so now you had all the best qualities of both dogs in one!! … but this wasn't good enough''..

the hare is one of the fastest animals on british soil'' and it takes a cracking grayhound to match a good winter hare for speed''..

so crossing a fast grayhound with a colly was making the dog slower?

so you have to take the pups of a first cross greyhound / collie and then cross it back with a greyhound' then you have the famous…

Three qorter greyhound collie'!! ..now you had your perfect all round dog'.. speed'' stamina' brains' manoverbility' and the craft of an old Gypsy' man!!…

 

Always breed speed on top' this means you put the greyhound dog to the collie bitch'

then breed the greyhound collie bitch back to a greyhound dog again. this keeps the speed but you still have the qualities of the collie.'

 

breading a good lurcher was by no means cut and dry'' most times' even after all that time and trouble it takes to bread a lurcher'. the dog you end up with my still be no good for coursing?

 

Too slow?

Wont strike?

Lacking in stamina?

Cant bend?....

or just all round useless!!

 

so a good lurcher is worth its wait in gold to a gypsy man.' after all they feed whole familys'..my old uncle fed a family of 7 children with the famous dog' Sailor''

 

Its very hard to get a dog with all the talents needed to be part of the family!!…

 

and a good lurcher was part of the family' well it was to the Gypsy men' who would spend hours walking over fields with there dog''

 

a man could stand with his lurcher and just point to were he thought he could seen a hare' and his dog would run to were you were pointing' always looking back to make sure he was on the right track' as he was stalking faster towards what he thought would be his next chase!!

 

this was handy when travelling with the wagons' … a man could sit high up on his wagon and see over the fields looking for a hare.' then he could point his dog towards his next meal'

 

 

also it was very important that a dog could hunt by its self'' a hare will flop so low on its belly' so that a normal man could almost stand on one but wouldn't know it was there'.. it takes a good trained eye to spot a hare' but a dog with a good nose will find him before you do''

 

the dog also has to be good at jumping if he cant jump you will loose qorry'..

fields have fences or brick walls 'and a crafty hare will run strait to stone wall or a fence' so the gypsy dog has to be able to jump and then jump again'' iv seen a dog jump a fence and land striking the hare dead''

 

which leads me to the last most important thing a Gypsy mans dog must do'' and that's strike'..

its no good having a dog that just chases game' but wont try to kill it!!…

. a good dog will throw its self at the hare and try to catch it in its teeth'' this is called the strike'' iv seen a dog chasing a hare and throw its self and roll 15 feet on the ground with the force of the strike but still had the hare in his mouth'.. a good strike is a clean kill' no distress to the animal'..

 

after the dog catch's the hare it should always carry the quarry back to the owner. its no use having a dog that runs away with the catch? or just leaves it were it caught it? . this is no good if your sitting on a wogon' or if your standing on the out side of the field' and dont have permission to go into the field'. so the last thing you need is to go running about picking up the hare!!

 

 

so if a gypsy mans dog could hunt' jump' kill' and carry'.. the dog was a champion' and you will hear in many a gypsy achin tan or pub the famous saying'' Hunt Jump Kill and Carry.''

 

Theirs a lot of old coursing sayings' and tricks that the gypsy people use .''

 

Never have a dog with a ring tail,' they they have terrible balance and look ugly.''

 

A dog is no good that gives mouth (barks') when chasing the hare. this happens if the dog is having trouble catching its quarry' and just alerts any farmers or gamkeepers. and allso means the dog has no hart.'

 

Years ago the old Gypsy men would learn a dog to go away' when he shouted it to come to him''

and come to him' when he shouted it to leave him' this was handy if caught pochin by muskrers farmers or game keepers'.

 

To stop a dog from attacking sheep'..muzzle his mouth and tie his legs and leave him in a small pen full of sheep'.. the sheep will run wild around the small pen and all over the dog'

this will give the dog a good healthy fear of the sheep.'

 

but its better to learn a dog when its a pup'' you can learn the pup by walking with it in or' around sheep and live stock'

or just as with the old dog' put the pup in a small pen full of sheep'

you wont need to muzzle or tie the pup' it will still grow up respecting livestock....

 

The three quarter greyhound collie' is the oldest and best known of lurcher breeds' but over the years' there have been many different types of lurcher.'

 

all breeds' below are cross (X) with greyhound

 

The Deerhound x

The Whippet x

The Bull x

The Staghound x

Bedlington x

and many many more..

 

 

But their is a breed of lurched that has taken over from the old greyhound collie' and that's the fantastic saluki greyhound.'

 

The saluki is used by the Bedouin Arabs' for hunting the desert hares' and they were agile good striking' and can run at a decent pace'..but they have one skill that puts it ahead of most other breeds' and that's stamina,' a suluki can run for massive distances without any trouble.'

 

so to take a dog like the suluki and cross it with the fastest dog in the word' the greyhound!!

and you have a modern day killing machine' and that's just what the Gypsy did'

 

the suluki greyhound' will not hunt with his nose' but he has grate eye sight and will stand with his owner and can spot a hare from a grate distance'' and were as you would only want to slip an ordinary lurcher from about 50 feet at most from a hare'. you can slip a saluki lurcher from a field away' and the dog will course and catch a hare''.. the suluki has so much stamina' that he can run and run until the hare is worn out''..

the saluki lurcher dose have problems in small fields were he cant use his long stretching stride'..

but in an open field' its a hard dog to match'

 

 

Theirs an old saying' Three out of three.''

it takes a good dog to run three and kill three hares'…

3 hares out of 3' that's the bench mark for an any good dog,'' you don't need to catch any more hares' because there is a lot of meat on a hare,' and you never kill more than you need to eat.''

 

the lurcher was a both a working tool and a friend to the romany Gypsy.'

and along with hares they could allso catch rabbits. i have seen them find headghogs and strike a feasant siting on its seat'

they were a usefull gard dog to protect the wagons.

they were hardy and could live out under a wagon in the harshest winters.

they were easy to feed' and had an excellent temperament around children.

over all the lurcher was bread by Gypsy's to hunt and provide' and that's just what they have done for many years' … the lurcher is' a true Romany Gypsy juckel...

 

 

 

Hunt' jump' kill' and carry!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get on there!

Brilliant to read this stuff. So few good books about the lurchers out there for people new to them and their history