Scruffing

[runforyourlife 361]

Depends on the dog in question, my collie grey would never forgive me if i scruffed her

 

Couldn't agree with you more, i've scruffed my labrador (but my definition of scruffing is holding the dog with the srcuff and placing it back where it was, not shaking the living daylights out of the dog!!). I'd never scruff the whippet though she'd never forgive me, all thats needed with her is a different tone of voice...

 

I'm firm on my dogs but never hard on them. They know i'm the pack leader and its not very often they try taking the piss lol

 

Absolutely agree.

 

If I scruffed my whippet - even tho he is hard as nails :laugh - the damage to the relationship would be lasting. Same goes for the lurcher.

 

 

Who the f**k said anything about shaking the dog!!! Your at it again, changing the meaning! Lurchergurl,(dont really want to use that name, as your not) you told me not long ago your dog wasnt to clever with livestock!! You also asked me to move my dog away from yours as it wasnt to sure with other dogS, no wonder. Get them out running first before you condem anybody elses training love!

 

 

Who are you talking too? certainly not me mate,I've had dogs for over 25 years and my dogs have never looked at feckin livestock. Quoting me you obviously mean me as well. DO YOU THINK I'D ENTER THE LAMPING COMP IF MY DOG WOULD PULL THE NEAREST SHEEP??????????.

 

The trouble is with folk on here they spend to much time at the computer and not enough time out training there dogs lol. but when it comes down to it there experts

 

Yes i was talking to you mate, it was you who mentioned shaking the living day lights out of it! why say it, when no had ever mentioned that. And what has your dog entering the lamping the competition got to do with scruffing!!! Read it proparly please, the first bit was to you, the rest was to someone else!

 

Now if your only after an argument go away, oh, my dogs work at least 4 or 5 times a week molly,( i only work mornings) the people who know me on here will back that up.... Now go win your lamping contest, and good luck pal..

[6pack 60]

To say other dogs don't use force to put another in it's place is fantasy.

I have seen dogs pin down pups and bark in there faces when the pup has not shown what they consider to be deserved respect.

 

Another thing is although I am gentle with my dogs I do get concerned that people may adopt a condacending so called liberal approach to what they perceive as the less progressive old methods of training.

We have been living in a country that has adopted these softly softly approaches to discipline with our criminals and youth for the last 12 years and look at the mess we are in now.

So to say modern is automatically right is not necessarily correct but as with feeding BARF etc some people feel the need to feel superior over others.

 

Never mind, things always go full circle and we are begining to see a swing towards more traditional non nonsence, less fluffy, hard line thinking in this country.

Only thing is how long will it take to root out of government, at all levels, those who strive to create the bloated mess that has almost bankrupted us as a country.

 

WOW! Scruffing to politics in one post

 

 

Am not one that believes in this 'purely positive' teaching lark. A dog does need to know consequences to it's actions.

All the 'he came back, give him a treat' stuff, even though it took the dog 3 hours to come back, doesn't wash well with me. Though positive reinforcement does have its place in dog training. And if the positive can be used, then why use a negative reinforcement?

 

Pack leader? Do you think your dog sees you as another dog? Most definitely not.

A pack of dogs living with you will have its own hierarchy with in the group. And they will look to you for leadership, but not as an alpha male, making scruffing, (or alpha rolling seems closer to what some are describing) being a completely alien action to your dog.

If it were a pack of wild dogs fighting over a rabbit corpse for example, yes the dogs would growl, a fight might well ensue if the subservient dog doesn't submit, and survival of the fittest. But you would never see a dominant dog in such circumstances 'scruff' the lower dog. The action of one dog pinning another is something completely different and is nothing remotely similar to that of a human scruffing their hound.

[runforyourlife 361]

To say other dogs don't use force to put another in it's place is fantasy.

I have seen dogs pin down pups and bark in there faces when the pup has not shown what they consider to be deserved respect.

 

Another thing is although I am gentle with my dogs I do get concerned that people may adopt a condacending so called liberal approach to what they perceive as the less progressive old methods of training.

We have been living in a country that has adopted these softly softly approaches to discipline with our criminals and youth for the last 12 years and look at the mess we are in now.

So to say modern is automatically right is not necessarily correct but as with feeding BARF etc some people feel the need to feel superior over others.

 

Never mind, things always go full circle and we are begining to see a swing towards more traditional non nonsence, less fluffy, hard line thinking in this country.

Only thing is how long will it take to root out of government, at all levels, those who strive to create the bloated mess that has almost bankrupted us as a country.

 

WOW! Scruffing to politics in one post

 

 

Am not one that believes in this 'purely positive' teaching lark. A dog does need to know consequences to it's actions.

All the 'he came back, give him a treat' stuff, even though it took the dog 3 hours to come back, doesn't wash well with me. Though positive reinforcement does have its place in dog training. And if the positive can be used, then why use a negative reinforcement?

 

Pack leader? Do you think your dog sees you as another dog? Most definitely not.

A pack of dogs living with you will have its own hierarchy with in the group. And they will look to you for leadership, but not as an alpha male, making scruffing, (or alpha rolling seems closer to what some are describing) being a completely alien action to your dog.

If it were a pack of wild dogs fighting over a rabbit corpse for example, yes the dogs would growl, a fight might well ensue if the subservient dog doesn't submit, and survival of the fittest. But you would never see a dominant dog in such circumstances 'scruff' the lower dog. The action of one dog pinning another is something completely different and is nothing remotely similar to that of a human scruffing their hound.

 

 

6pack, a dog which knows nothing else, only you and your family and maybe another dog or 2 will look at oneof the humans as the alpha male(pack leader). You are its pack in which it lives in... I suggest you read the book "the dog whisper"/....

[6pack 60]

Yes - its in a book. It MUST be right. lol.

Its a load of rubbish.

To imply that a dog would look at you as a dog, would also imply that a dog could not tell the difference between other different species, and we all know that isn't the case.

While you are looking at every aspect of the dogs behaviour as a dominance problem related to its position with in its pack, you will get no where. You are his leader, but not his Alpha, in that you are not a dog.

Yes, scruffing may get the desired result, but not for the reasons you think it does.

[Guest chook]

To say other dogs don't use force to put another in it's place is fantasy.

I have seen dogs pin down pups and bark in there faces when the pup has not shown what they consider to be deserved respect.

 

Another thing is although I am gentle with my dogs I do get concerned that people may adopt a condacending so called liberal approach to what they perceive as the less progressive old methods of training.

We have been living in a country that has adopted these softly softly approaches to discipline with our criminals and youth for the last 12 years and look at the mess we are in now.

So to say modern is automatically right is not necessarily correct but as with feeding BARF etc some people feel the need to feel superior over others.

 

Never mind, things always go full circle and we are begining to see a swing towards more traditional non nonsence, less fluffy, hard line thinking in this country.

Only thing is how long will it take to root out of government, at all levels, those who strive to create the bloated mess that has almost bankrupted us as a country.

 

 

Actualy your wrong there, unless the dog is intent on killing the other dog or the dog is just a plain bully - then they will never pin or roll another dog,

to your eye it may seem that - thats what happens, but you will find that the subordinate dog actualy rolls its self,

the other dog will occasionaly have its mouth over the other dogs neck, snap or bark at it, a lot of times this is to tell them to tow the line.

 

 

At the end of the day - we are not dogs, we are not psychologically equipped, to quote a paragraf (sp) from an artical.

Our corrections are imprecise, frequently inappropriate to the offense, and our timing is poor. We tend to stay in that emotional mess even after the event is over. As a result of our emotions, over and under correction, and physical slowness, we are significantly less effective in communicating the specific behavior which was inappropriate; we confuse the dog and reduce, rather than elevate, the dog's confidence in our abilities and trust in our judgment. http://www.4pawsu.com/leaderadv.htm

 

If i was to ever scruff my lurcher, she would never forgive me, she would loose all trust in me (i dont mean scruff and pin, just scruffing)

my other dogs would probably submit and then be warey of me, for the rest of the day

i wouldnt even like to try with the deerhound, at 29" - god help me.

[runforyourlife 361]

Its a load of rubbish!! Its been proven and wittness, are you one of these who knows everything with out even reading it first, i thought it was elderly gentlemen who were that way inclined,. Anyway it dooesnt matter, i am not going to reply to you on here now, as you have made it quite clear, you wont listen, and seem to know everything, even when you havent practised what you preach. P.s. i have a leak in my sewage pipe, how do i fix it harry enfield...

Edited August 14, 2009 by runforyourlife

[6pack 60]

Its a load of rubbish!! Its been proven and wittness, are you one of these who knows everything with out even reading it first, i thought it was elderly gentlemen who were that way inclined,. Anyway it dooesnt matter, i am not going to reply to you on here now, as you have made it quite clear, you wont listen, and seem to know everything, even when you havent practised what you preach. P.s. i have a leak in my sewage pipe, how do i fix it harry enfield...

 

You are right. It has been proven.

A recent test and report (shall hunt it out) has shown dominance and other misconceptions to be totally flawed.

Have you tried The Dog Listener instead?

 

I understand you have no grounds to discuss. Fine

[runforyourlife 361]

Its a load of rubbish!! Its been proven and wittness, are you one of these who knows everything with out even reading it first, i thought it was elderly gentlemen who were that way inclined,. Anyway it dooesnt matter, i am not going to reply to you on here now, as you have made it quite clear, you wont listen, and seem to know everything, even when you havent practised what you preach. P.s. i have a leak in my sewage pipe, how do i fix it harry enfield...

 

You are right. It has been proven.

A recent test and report (shall hunt it out) has shown dominance and other misconceptions to be totally flawed.

Have you tried The Dog Listener instead?

 

I understand you have no grounds to discuss. Fine

 

I'll go one better than the dog listener, i have done it on my own dog!

[lurchergrrl 1,441]

... just can't help myself ..... :laugh:

 

[anagallis_arvensis 2]

I put up earlier that I'd scruff a dog under cirtain circumstances. Well they arose today. I scruffed a dog this morning. It was a staff/GS by the looks of it. It was either that or kick it round the field. Didnt pin it down though as it stopped trying to eat my lurcher and tried to eat me!! I'd have done a damn site more than scruff the owner if he hadnt legged it too.

[runforyourlife 361]

... just can't help myself ..... :laugh:

 

 

lol, thats funny, but my live out side, they are working dogs....i surgest you get out a bit more,lol. oh, i forgot, you have kids, oh i also forgot, so do i.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An Abundance of Witches: The Great Scottish Witch-hunt

[mally 832]

Depends on the dog in question, my collie grey would never forgive me if i scruffed her

 

Couldn't agree with you more, i've scruffed my labrador (but my definition of scruffing is holding the dog with the srcuff and placing it back where it was, not shaking the living daylights out of the dog!!). I'd never scruff the whippet though she'd never forgive me, all thats needed with her is a different tone of voice...

 

I'm firm on my dogs but never hard on them. They know i'm the pack leader and its not very often they try taking the piss lol

 

Absolutely agree.

 

If I scruffed my whippet - even tho he is hard as nails :laugh - the damage to the relationship would be lasting. Same goes for the lurcher.

 

 

Who the f**k said anything about shaking the dog!!! Your at it again, changing the meaning! Lurchergurl,(dont really want to use that name, as your not) you told me not long ago your dog wasnt to clever with livestock!! You also asked me to move my dog away from yours as it wasnt to sure with other dogS, no wonder. Get them out running first before you condem anybody elses training love!

 

 

Who are you talking too? certainly not me mate,I've had dogs for over 25 years and my dogs have never looked at feckin livestock. Quoting me you obviously mean me as well. DO YOU THINK I'D ENTER THE LAMPING COMP IF MY DOG WOULD PULL THE NEAREST SHEEP??????????.

 

The trouble is with folk on here they spend to much time at the computer and not enough time out training there dogs lol. but when it comes down to it there experts

 

Yes i was talking to you mate, it was you who mentioned shaking the living day lights out of it! why say it, when no had ever mentioned that. And what has your dog entering the lamping the competition got to do with scruffing!!! Read it proparly please, the first bit was to you, the rest was to someone else!

 

Now if your only after an argument go away, oh, my dogs work at least 4 or 5 times a week molly,( i only work mornings) the people who know me on here will back that up.... Now go win your lamping contest, and good luck pal..

 

 

Well make you posts more clearer in future and another thing i'm certainly not your Mate.

 

Scruffing if you may or may not know is often interpreted by some people to scruffing the dog and shaking it. I made the comment so people didn't assume i did this. If you had any knowledge of dogs or training you would have known this. Instead you start calling folk who posted in good faith. It's pricks like you that are spoiling this site. There's plenty of folk on here who sit at the computer all day claiming to be experts in the field when in reality they've probably not set foot in one for weeks.

 

I refered to the lamping competition as you claimed my dogs chased sheep. Would i have entered her in the comp if she chased sheep????(you didn't make your post clear did you??)...

[runforyourlife 361]

Depends on the dog in question, my collie grey would never forgive me if i scruffed her

 

Couldn't agree with you more, i've scruffed my labrador (but my definition of scruffing is holding the dog with the srcuff and placing it back where it was, not shaking the living daylights out of the dog!!). I'd never scruff the whippet though she'd never forgive me, all thats needed with her is a different tone of voice...

 

I'm firm on my dogs but never hard on them. They know i'm the pack leader and its not very often they try taking the piss lol

 

Absolutely agree.

 

If I scruffed my whippet - even tho he is hard as nails :laugh - the damage to the relationship would be lasting. Same goes for the lurcher.

 

 

Who the f**k said anything about shaking the dog!!! Your at it again, changing the meaning! Lurchergurl,(dont really want to use that name, as your not) you told me not long ago your dog wasnt to clever with livestock!! You also asked me to move my dog away from yours as it wasnt to sure with other dogS, no wonder. Get them out running first before you condem anybody elses training love!

 

 

Who are you talking too? certainly not me mate,I've had dogs for over 25 years and my dogs have never looked at feckin livestock. Quoting me you obviously mean me as well. DO YOU THINK I'D ENTER THE LAMPING COMP IF MY DOG WOULD PULL THE NEAREST SHEEP??????????.

 

The trouble is with folk on here they spend to much time at the computer and not enough time out training there dogs lol. but when it comes down to it there experts

 

Yes i was talking to you mate, it was you who mentioned shaking the living day lights out of it! why say it, when no had ever mentioned that. And what has your dog entering the lamping the competition got to do with scruffing!!! Read it proparly please, the first bit was to you, the rest was to someone else!

 

Now if your only after an argument go away, oh, my dogs work at least 4 or 5 times a week molly,( i only work mornings) the people who know me on here will back that up.... Now go win your lamping contest, and good luck pal..

 

 

Well make you posts more clearer in future and another thing i'm certainly not your Mate.

 

Scruffing if you may or may not know is often interpreted by some people to scruffing the dog and shaking it. I made the comment so people didn't assume i did this. If you had any knowledge of dogs or training you would have known this. Instead you start calling folk who posted in good faith. It's pricks like you that are spoiling this site. There's plenty of folk on here who sit at the computer all day claiming to be experts in the field when in reality they've probably not set foot in one for weeks.

 

I refered to the lamping competition as you claimed my dogs chased sheep. Would i have entered her in the comp if she chased sheep????(you didn't make your post clear did you??)...

 

Dont call me a PRICK mally, i was going to come and see you yesterday at harogate but i didnt get there..... I'll see you at the next show....It was only last week i bought a photo off you, you seemed descent then, and all the other times i have spoken to you. Just forget it hey MATE!!!!!!!! I won the Beddlington x last week a E D R D..........

[mally 832]

Depends on the dog in question, my collie grey would never forgive me if i scruffed her

 

Couldn't agree with you more, i've scruffed my labrador (but my definition of scruffing is holding the dog with the srcuff and placing it back where it was, not shaking the living daylights out of the dog!!). I'd never scruff the whippet though she'd never forgive me, all thats needed with her is a different tone of voice...

 

I'm firm on my dogs but never hard on them. They know i'm the pack leader and its not very often they try taking the piss lol

 

Absolutely agree.

 

If I scruffed my whippet - even tho he is hard as nails :laugh - the damage to the relationship would be lasting. Same goes for the lurcher.

 

 

Who the f**k said anything about shaking the dog!!! Your at it again, changing the meaning! Lurchergurl,(dont really want to use that name, as your not) you told me not long ago your dog wasnt to clever with livestock!! You also asked me to move my dog away from yours as it wasnt to sure with other dogS, no wonder. Get them out running first before you condem anybody elses training love!

 

 

Who are you talking too? certainly not me mate,I've had dogs for over 25 years and my dogs have never looked at feckin livestock. Quoting me you obviously mean me as well. DO YOU THINK I'D ENTER THE LAMPING COMP IF MY DOG WOULD PULL THE NEAREST SHEEP??????????.

 

The trouble is with folk on here they spend to much time at the computer and not enough time out training there dogs lol. but when it comes down to it there experts

 

Yes i was talking to you mate, it was you who mentioned shaking the living day lights out of it! why say it, when no had ever mentioned that. And what has your dog entering the lamping the competition got to do with scruffing!!! Read it proparly please, the first bit was to you, the rest was to someone else!

 

Now if your only after an argument go away, oh, my dogs work at least 4 or 5 times a week molly,( i only work mornings) the people who know me on here will back that up.... Now go win your lamping contest, and good luck pal..

 

 

Well make you posts more clearer in future and another thing i'm certainly not your Mate.

 

Scruffing if you may or may not know is often interpreted by some people to scruffing the dog and shaking it. I made the comment so people didn't assume i did this. If you had any knowledge of dogs or training you would have known this. Instead you start calling folk who posted in good faith. It's pricks like you that are spoiling this site. There's plenty of folk on here who sit at the computer all day claiming to be experts in the field when in reality they've probably not set foot in one for weeks.

 

I refered to the lamping competition as you claimed my dogs chased sheep. Would i have entered her in the comp if she chased sheep????(you didn't make your post clear did you??)...

 

Dont call me a PRICK mally, i was going to come and see you yesterday at harogate but i didnt get there..... I'll see you at the next show....It was only last week i bought a photo off you, you seemed descent then, and all the other times i have spoken to you. Just forget it hey MATE!!!!!!!! I won the Beddlington x last week a E D R D..........

 

 

Your more than welcome to come and see me. I was quoting a fact. And as for your threats by pm they are just futile i take no notice at all of folk trying bullying tactics to win an argument. People who know me know i tell it how it is. if folk don't like it then it's tough. Simple as that. I never wrap things in cotton wool i tell it how it is.

 

I will be at the Pride of the Peaks on Sunday the 20th of September.