Totally agree Paul and what a great post c d putting him up for open stud was a big mistake I had stuff direct out of pye to a grey a 3\4 Charlie pye to meg father daughter lining 5/8 3/8 a great bitch produced Maggie probably the best I owned pye to blacky a another father daughter lining half cross produced paddy and few others a bit more farther away but all carried the same traits easy to live with natural retrievers and good to say but could do a job ?