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#31 baillie

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 04:48 pm

do not have a level one and do not want one.does not make you a better stalker as proved when i took someone with a level one on my stalking ground not only could he not shoot them in the proper area,could not gralloch them properly and he could not do the larder work properly either, and in some peoples eyes he is more qualified to do it than me because he has a bit off paper .personally think it is a waste off time and money
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#32 Night Hunter

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:03 pm

John ,I have no doubts that you are very good at what you do mate and I apologise If it seems that I am having a dig at you personaly but that is not my intention,I do not have 22yrs experiance like yourself,I started stalking roe deer 10yrs ago and have shot with my friend and mentor since then,he has over 30yrs under his belt,both of us have decided not to sit the DMQ's as have many other stalkers I have spoken to.Why do we require a piece of paper when we have been stalking without incident for such a long time what about grandfathers rights alot of good stalkers will be lost allong with true stalking skills If the proposals are made law but the MP's and MSP's that I have written to asure me that they will oppose the proposals .I can see the requirement for some sort of volintary training for newcomers to stalking when mentoring is not available but I just totally disagree with the need for compulsory testing.

How can it be possible to certify someone as safe and competant over such a short period of time and then allow them out into the countryside with a high power rifle,As I have said before it is only a matter of time before there is a fatality as a result of stalking and I would put money on it that the culprit has DMQ certification.

I like youself have had to mop up the mess after poor shot placement but not by novices these were due to two stalkers that had thier DMQ 1 and were subsiquantly put off the permition when I was asked to take It on after the land owner found one dead and saw two wounded deer.... not a nice job.

#33 martin

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:42 pm

Sorry Martin I cant agree, 1 thing is yes I stand to gain I dont argue with that.
BUT only this morning I had a chap out and he said he has shot a few deer but agrees hes still a novice.
He said his gun was zeroed 1 inch low at 100m's and that was as near as he could get it as he was down to his last 5 bullets. he only wanted 1 deer so that would be ample. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
I see these things everyday often from lads who should know better.
COMPULSORY testing has my vote all the way. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...



With respect John,that has nothing to do with DSC1 or 2,and,if there should be some FAC training then it should be run by and subsidised by the government and the gunshops,and,it should be a basic safety course with the essentials that would make all users safe,and,wouldn't need to cost hundreds of pounds either.We all come across bad practice from all sorts of people and it isn't always the people one would expect either,I have witnessed some very poor decisions by holders of DSC1&2.I really don't have a problem with some sort of safety training that would help everyone,but,should it be mandatory....No! should it be cheap so everyone goes for it....Yes!

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#34 wireviz

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 08:48 am

Defoe no to compulsory training and any one that wants it is a knob or a greedy b*****d that wants to skin cash from the less affluent.There are many fools at this game and there are plenty sharks waiting to part them from there cash be warned.
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#35 mj robson

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 09:28 am

I have level 1 and was registered for level 2 but I never got round to doing it so the registration ran out about 2 years ago. :doh: I'll probably get round to doing it some time in the future.

A keeper I know has some of the best stalking in the country for Roe and has vast experience, yet he didn't do well at school and can't read or write well. What would happen if people like him were made to sit these tests??? :hmm:

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#36 tommydeer

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 09:50 am

Could see how this thread was going to pan out the moment you started it John, i know you didnt want it to diverse from your original question but it was always going to happen, its always been a sore subject.

One thing i want to touch on is experience, i always turn a blind eye to "ive been doing it for 20 years, 30 years, 40 years". So what....how do you know you've been doing it right all along, who's to say your right. I find some people think they should get instant respect for being a stalker for 40 years, no...you earn it.

As for DSC 1 & 2, my views have always been the same, its rubbish, a complete waste of time and the only reason im actually doing my level 2 is because the estate is paying for it. Would i spend £100 on paperwork under normal circumstances, plus whatever other fees there are to consider,never.

I work with deer every day, in a farmed environment, a wild environment and a park environment. Ive met some really interesting people over the years, and taken many of them out. Hand on heart though, the worst have had the paperwork. One chap who is an accredited witness shot a 2 year old sika stag thinking it was a fallow sorrell, the next day he shot an axis female thinking it was a fallow...and he's out there passing his experience on to newcomers. Trust me, there are more stories and more people like this.

If anything, if they really wanted to make use of the paperwork and make it worthwhile they should have done it over a year and/or say 30 animals culled. at least then it shows your active and experienced which can be rewarded with a piece of paper.

My biggest fear is that there are guys out there, good guys, the Foxdroppers/Martins/mj Robsons of this world who have no interest in certificates but who can do the job and do it well, these guys will miss out on ground(if they wanted it that is)to people who have been stalking 3 months, read some books, had a few shots at deer and will probably go out maybe the odd weekend each month.

Its a system thats floored, end of.

#37 Night Hunter

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:59 am

I have level 1 and was registered for level 2 but I never got round to doing it so the registration ran out about 2 years ago. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... I'll probably get round to doing it some time in the future.

A keeper I know has some of the best stalking in the country for Roe and has vast experience, yet he didn't do well at school and can't read or write well. What would happen if people like him were made to sit these tests??? http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

Mark.

Easy answer is he will be pushed out of his job and stalking like the rest of us who are refusing to sit the test to make way for someone with less experiance and a piece of paper....simply we all have to fight this tooth and nail write to anyone that you can MP's and MSP's ,this is what I have been doing for months now remember to mention the lies that they were told by DCS about the fatalities that were not related in any way to stalking but wer mentioned to mislead the government and the people of scotland..lieing greedy gits

#38 mj robson

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 01:22 pm

"Easy answer is he will be pushed out of his job"


That would be a real shame if it ever came to this.

Here's a couple of the 7 medal heads he's had this week. He's got Talent that no piece of paper can replace! I've learned a lot from him in the last 5 years.


Posted Image

Posted Image

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#39 foxdropper

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:27 pm

Now thats quality Mark :victory: .
Question -If a lad has the dsc 1 and 2 and no previous experience is he eligible to take on a lease straight away from the forestry commision? .I think i know the answer but is it right for this to happen .Is following up a wounded animal part of the testing as it surely should be ,as should the need for a deer finding dog be covered or at least the use of one in such situations .The hands and knees locating of a wounded beast is daunted to experienced chaps without being thrown in the deepend as well .
No matter how you dress it up ,it will never take the place of time served .

#40 john robbo

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:39 pm

Well when I witness a candidate i will simulate a wounded animal and assess as best I can weather they will cut it or not.
I know its not best but its all I can do if in the 3 stalks a deer hasn't been wounded.
Other than deliberatly wounding 1 its not possible to know for sure.
A candidate could shoot 30 or 50 without a wounded beast a test is only as good as we can make it.
I do see where you are coming from but its all we have to go on.

#41 FightTheBan

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:41 pm

"No matter how you dress it up ,it will never take the place of time served . "

That is so true.
I know of a guy who has DMQ 1 and is on course for obtaining DMQ 2. The guy couldnt hit a cows arse with a spade and has the grace of a fecking elephant whilst on a stalk.
I had him out once and I said never again.

The best lads I have seen are ones who are doing it frequently and getting numbers - not those with a ticket.
I think things are fine as they are - we dont need compulsary anything which will only benefit the privellaged few.

FTB

Edited by FightTheBan, 01 May 2010 - 03:42 pm.

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#42 foxdropper

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 04:05 pm

AMEN

#43 tommydeer

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 04:12 pm

:thumbs:

#44 Night Hunter

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 04:16 pm

If we stand back and do nothing then we only have ourselves to blame,get on the net find out who your MP's and MSP's are and get writing to them they are duty bound to reply to you,inform them of your views and concerns ,you will probably find that they do not know very much about it but if they eventually do have to vote then they can reflect on the letters that they have recieved....

Edited by Night Hunter, 02 May 2010 - 04:27 pm.


#45 bagforthebadgers

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 06:25 pm

I have 1 and am also working towards 2, in the near future.
Cheers


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