dogs lost all back muscle

[Guest smashygadge]

well my dog took bad just over a week or so ago .

he is now seeming to recover well just he has lost all back muscle as tho he has been starved .

this was mentioned to the vet but didnt seem too worried .

but iam he is looking rather frail and under fed .

when he took his injury he did go of his grub for a few days i just dont understand how he could loose so much muscle so quick .cheers

[threbb 0]

well my dog took bad just over a week or so ago .

he is now seeming to recover well just he has lost all back muscle as tho he has been starved .

this was mentioned to the vet but didnt seem too worried .

but iam he is looking rather frail and under fed .

when he took his injury he did go of his grub for a few days i just dont understand how he could loose so much muscle so quick .cheers

Bring him back slowly and give him electrolytes and plenty of fluid.Have you run him unfit? thats the biggest cause of running the back off a dog and he could have died.If you rush him back to work youll kill him.That vet doesnt sound like a Greyhound vet or he might have had him on the drip but you must get electroytes into him and no running.Just lead walking and steadily bring him back.good luck

[Guest smashygadge]

well my dog took bad just over a week or so ago .

he is now seeming to recover well just he has lost all back muscle as tho he has been starved .

this was mentioned to the vet but didnt seem too worried .

but iam he is looking rather frail and under fed .

when he took his injury he did go of his grub for a few days i just dont understand how he could loose so much muscle so quick .cheers

Bring him back slowly and give him electrolytes and plenty of fluid.Have you run him unfit? thats the biggest cause of running the back off a dog and he could have died.If you rush him back to work youll kill him.That vet doesnt sound like a Greyhound vet or he might have had him on the drip but you must get electroytes into him and no running.Just lead walking and steadily bring him back.good luck

 

that sounds very good and no im not intending on working him soon.

to my knowledge the dog was well and fit .

he had a body like a power house well toned and very strong.

i didnt have him to a greyhound vets no .they said he could have had dog menangitous

and infection urine.also he had over exhurted himself.

and i quite understand i could of lost him ,and not somthing iam wanting.

and thankyou very much for the advise most appreiciated

simon

[skycat 6,173]

Was his back very sore before he lost the mucsle: this sounds like a classic case of running a dog's back off. It happens when a dog is run very hard over a long period of time: like a hard course on a hare, rather than a few runs on rabbits. What happens is that the lactic acid build up in the over taxed muscle causes a break down in the muscle fibres. Like has already been said: this can actually kill a dog as the kidneys can't pump the acid through quick enough: dogs will often pee dark red coloured pee as well straight after being over run, and they often drink and pee endlessly: known as coursing thirst.

 

Be very careful to build the dog back up slowly: it will take at least 6 WEEKS. Feed good quality high protein food or lots of red meat as well as bone and fat. Keep the dog very warm and comfortable and only lead walk for at least a month.

 

Dogs that have run their backs off usually never get the muscle back like they did before, but they can run OK, but you need to be careful not to let it happen again.

[Guest smashygadge]

Was his back very sore before he lost the mucsle: this sounds like a classic case of running a dog's back off. It happens when a dog is run very hard over a long period of time: like a hard course on a hare, rather than a few runs on rabbits. What happens is that the lactic acid build up in the over taxed muscle causes a break down in the muscle fibres. Like has already been said: this can actually kill a dog as the kidneys can't pump the acid through quick enough: dogs will often pee dark red coloured pee as well straight after being over run, and they often drink and pee endlessly: known as coursing thirst.

 

Be very careful to build the dog back up slowly: it will take at least 6 WEEKS. Feed good quality high protein food or lots of red meat as well as bone and fat. Keep the dog very warm and comfortable and only lead walk for at least a month.

 

Dogs that have run their backs off usually never get the muscle back like they did before, but they can run OK, but you need to be careful not to let it happen again.

 

thanks skycat sounds the most sense ive heard and very well put.

i have certainly learnt from this .

and a good bit of advise i wont be forgetting in a hurry.

many thanks simon

[tote 843]

well my dog took bad just over a week or so ago .

he is now seeming to recover well just he has lost all back muscle as tho he has been starved .

this was mentioned to the vet but didnt seem too worried .

but iam he is looking rather frail and under fed .

when he took his injury he did go of his grub for a few days i just dont understand how he could loose so much muscle so quick .cheers

 

By the sounds of it your dog has had what is sometimes known as acidosis. Basically your dog has over exerted itself, this can happen if the dog isn't fit enough for the work it's asked to do or having a few runs too many at the end of a hard days coursing or nights lamping.Skycat has described what happens regarding the lactic acid build up.

 

Quite often the next day the dog will have trouble getting up off it's bed as it's back and hind leg muscles become sore.Over the course of the next few days the muscles get sorer and the dogs back becomes hard and the dog has trouble getting about. Eventually the soreness goes away but during this time the dog will lose a lot of weight of it's back and can look pretty thin.

 

As Skycat has said good food and a warm bed, i'd also recommend giving the dog electrolytes as well.

 

I must add that i've had one and saw another two dogs that have had acidosis and all three dogs recovered fully with no adverse effects.

 

I must also add that a severe case of acidosis can and has killed dogs.

[Guest smashygadge]

well my dog took bad just over a week or so ago .

he is now seeming to recover well just he has lost all back muscle as tho he has been starved .

this was mentioned to the vet but didnt seem too worried .

but iam he is looking rather frail and under fed .

when he took his injury he did go of his grub for a few days i just dont understand how he could loose so much muscle so quick .cheers

 

By the sounds of it your dog has had what is sometimes known as acidosis. Basically your dog has over exerted itself, this can happen if the dog isn't fit enough for the work it's asked to do or having a few runs too many at the end of a hard days coursing or nights lamping.Skycat has described what happens regarding the lactic acid build up.

 

Quite often the next day the dog will have trouble getting up off it's bed as it's back and hind leg muscles become sore.Over the course of the next few days the muscles get sorer and the dogs back becomes hard and the dog has trouble getting about. Eventually the soreness goes away but during this time the dog will lose a lot of weight of it's back and can look pretty thin.

 

As Skycat has said good food and a warm bed, i'd also recommend giving the dog electrolytes as well.

 

I must add that i've had one and saw another two dogs that have had acidosis and all three dogs recovered fully with no adverse effects.

 

I must also add that a severe case of acidosis can and has killed dogs.

 

thanks tote very good explanation .

i had been told it was over exurtion ,and i thought i was losing him prior to the vet last monday.

the boy is acting all good again in mind and eating which he lost at the out set.

and very keen to be bucking his cusion lol.

i can understand when people say he was unfit but quite honestly somthing i never expected or noticed.i have over worked him a little and ive payed.my newness to the game not spotting tell tale signs has shown me the worse case of the work .when on the other hand i was seeing him or thinking he was benifitting from it.he is a very head strong dog and i as an owner had not seen any down side or any upset in his well being,up until that fatefull night.

i will happily be giving him alot more respect in the future he means a lot to me and the family

and wouldnt want to lose him in the slightest .

iam very greatfull to all that have put it quite plain and simple for me as its all sinking into my brain matter and hopfully i can avoid this in the future with him and any other dog i run .

so many thanks for the expertese and advise thankyou

[mccroryart 0]

Good post

 

I'm no expert and will take note of Samashys experience when my own young pup is ready to run. Like Smashy my dog is fast becoming a family favourite and I would hate to damage him through my inexperience or stupidity. I read a lot about dog training, nutrition, exercise etc but I guess its only experience (especially bitter experience) that makes it all sink in. Any other major things to try and avoid would be a great help.

 

Eamonn

[skycat 6,173]

Its all too common that we think our dogs are fairly fit, but endless road walking and even a burn up round a couple of fields playing with another dog are absolutely nothing compared to the sustained effort of running a long ear.

You know when these exercise fitness teachers tell people to 'go for the burn' (when the muscles are burning). Well imagine doing that for a long time: minutes on end: what happens is that the muscles are actually being subjected to tiny tears in the tissue. This is how body builders put on muscle: each lift of the weights actually causes tiny tears in the muscle. Of course these guys are doing this in a controlled manner, giving those tears time to heal before the next session, and each session causes the muscle to grow and get stronger.

Now put your dog in the same situation, but without the control and time to build up the muscle: the muscle can't take it and breaks down like with Smashy's dog's back.

 

In an ideal world we would give our dogs plenty of galloping exercise long before they ever have to chase a long ear, and in an ideal world we would give them a medium length run on a long ear every couple of days once they are pretty galloping fit. Only when a dog has been running like this for a month would I say that the dog is approaching something like real coursing fitness.

 

Of course in the real world this doesn't happen a lot due to circumstances and the fact that a long ear can run a dog ragged: no dog is guaranteed to catch a long ear anyway, especially when it is learning the game. So your not very fit dog can get a very long run: it comes back a bit drunk, panting like a drain. You give it a few moments (not long enough) to get its tongue back in, then up jumps another long ear: you slip the dog again, still not fully recovered from the first run, and the desire and adrenelin pushes it to try its hardest to catch.

This time the dog comes back and you still think it is OK. Then it might start to pee dark wine coloured: this is the time to take it home immediately: so many people don't even notice that the dog is peeing dark coloured urine.

 

Run the dog again the following day and your'e well on the way to damaging the dog permanently, as the muscle damage to the back isn't obvious until a good 24 hours later.

 

Getting a dog fully fit is as much an art as a science, and each dog is different. Heavily Saluki saturated dogs can run unfit far more safely than very fast pumped up muscle dogs like Greys and Whippets as they have a different muscle structure.

 

Basically I would say that the more Grey or Whippet you have in a lurcher, the longer it takes to get them really fit, and you really need to put the fitness work in there long before the dog ever sees a long ear. Even galloping in a straight line is nothing compared to the twisting and turning a dog does when it is on the back of a long ear: that is what really makes those back muscles work so hard: a bit like you running for a 100 yards sprint compared to going out and completing a cross country race.

 

Hope this helps.

[sandymere 8,261]

If the dog had an infection, you mention meningitis and urinary tract infection (UTI), was run unwell and went off it's feed then it likely used it's own body reserves, it's muscle, for energy to keep going hence the weight loss. If it had a UTI I'd avoid salt ie electrolytes unless your vet says so based on blood tests. Rest good food and a gentle return to exercise over a few weeks. Must agree with skycats advice re running long ears.

 

Little comment on lactic acid. The research that paints it as the bad guy was undertaken in the 1920's on musle tissue from dead frogs and is maybe not very reliable ie lactic built up, as did a number of substances, and could not get out as there was nowhere to go. Muscle contraction slowed and the lactic was blamed. Recent reaserch on living muscle, including dogs, paints a different picture. In simple terms lactic acid is a product of and a fuel of muscles and would perhaps be a prefered fuel of heart muscle. In living bodies it is not trapped and excess circulates to non-working areas for use. So not the bogey man after all. There are various other chemical changes that may account in part to reduced muscle contraction one being pottassium shift from muscle cells, so electrolytes by increaseng sodium may cause further imbalence. Muscle sorness is not down to lactate but most likely , as skycat mentions, micro tears in the muscle tissue.

[andy212 1]

good read and some good advice!

[Hannah4181 260]

Interesting read. I work my dogs on a flirt stick to help build muscle and fitness when twisting, it's amazing what this exercise can take out of them, My bitch when she 1st started on it, after 1/2 mins was done. I have built her up over time and she can now happily go for 10 mins on the flirt, however like anything, i think it's everything in moderation. She trains on the stick normally twice a week, and has free running everyday, jump training, ball retrieve and swims 3 times a week. I do all this with her not so she's fit to work, but purely to keep her mentally and physically stimulated. She is very fit and loves every minute of all her exercise's.

[samba 534]

HAD TROUBLE WI MY OLD DOG AT BEGING OF SEASON NOT 100% FIT

AND ENDED UP HAVINF A FEW HARD RUNS

THE MORNING AFTER WOULDNT COME OUT OF KENNEL AND LOOK LIKE A SNAKE

TOOK HIM TO ROBERT MEEK AND STRAIGHT AWAY SAID ACIDOCIS DUE TO RUNNING

TO HARD

TOLD ME TO GIVE HIM TEASPOON OF BI CARB SODA ON HIS FEED DAILY

WAIT TILL THE SORENESS AS GONE IN IS BACK AND RUN HIM

DID THIS AND THAT WAS IN AUGUST TOUCH WOOD NEVER HAD THE PROBLEM AGAIN

BUT ALL DOGS ARE NOT AS LUCKY AS SOME NEVER COME RIGHT IN FACT IT CAN BE FATAL

IN EXTREME CASES

GOOD LUCK WI YOUR DOG HOPE HE COME RIGHT

[greg64 2,584]

what an excellent thread, thank you all

[Paul in North Lincs 15]

my greyhound was the same.......nothing wrong with him...he just started to lose composition from working.

 

 

I intended to lamp with him and he came on very well.......but even 4 short sessions a week on an hour or 2 was too much, and he started to 'go light'.....ex rack dogs get run once a week......and mulitple nights just canes em

 

 

Another consideration is cold.........greys are very thin skinned and in a cold kenel a night...they can expend a massive ammount of energy jsut keeping warm..........where a good bodied lurcher would have no problem...

 

My sleeping quaters are 10ft by 3ft...half have a lid on..and they are on a raised floor.......... on it goes into minus I even stick to oild fired radiator on for a few hours on a time..........I know..I spoil em