Puppy Litters & Rescue Lurchers

[lurchergrrl 1,441]

With you there Scally; having owned a few pedigree's in my day, and having been a vet nurse, I've seen some pretty sad examples of several different breeds. I rescued a boston terrier once who was nowt more than a puppy machine, all knarled and twisted but still turning out pups Her temperment was even worse than her looks poor bugger.

 

The whole breeding debate could go round and round and round. In the end, it would seem to me that working stock, when bred by thoughtful people, is the best there is. When done sparingly and with some forethought, it benefits the dogs as well as the folks who have them.

[6pack 60]

The rescue I help here in the UK also have an open mind with regards to rehoming. They believe the best home is what is best for the dog, and often an ex working dog will be rehomed to a working home.

 

It's not like that in the US. The vast majority of sighthound rescue like Greyhounds, etc. will not adopt to a home that wants to hunt the dog. Extremely specific contracts are also the norm, requiring fenced yards, no kenneling (dog must be kept the house), dog is never to be allowed off lead, that kind of thing.

 

It is also increasingly difficult to get a dog of any kind through many shelters or rescues. The rescue community and general public regard anyone who keeps an intact dog as irresponsible and most will not place a dog with someone who keeps dogs that are not spayed or neutered.

 

Someone I know went looking for a rescue livestock guardian for her farm and could not find one that would allow her to work the dog; they all wanted the dog kept only in the house.

 

Rescue and breeding are hot topics right now in the US; next month the city council of Dallas, Texas, will vote on an ordinance that will require all dogs over the age of six months to be spayed or neutered. Only dogs of AKC recognized breeds whose owners pay a $500 per year fee would be eligible to stay intact.

 

America - the land of the free and the home of the brave. Not sure on dog ownership laws in America. Are they considered 'property' as they are here in England? If so, surely such law would go against your own civil rights?

And how would new breeds progress and become aknowledged Breeds such as Silken Windhounds, now recognised by the AKC but basically a mutt crossed between a borzoi and a whippet. It makes no sense - where would we be with out the common mongrel

 

I feel disheartened when I see pups being churned out with no homes lined up. I do think demand before supply, and breeding because dogs look pretty, or bcause an owner just cant be bothered, is irresponsible.

 

I have a pedigree dog - but she is a poor example of her breed. Breeding should be to improve on a dog/breed, not just for the sake of it.

[spookster 0]

Friends of mine moved from scotland to the states with their lurcher and terrier.

When their lurcher died they had trouble finding another lurcher. All the greyhound rescues and lucher said the dogs needed to be muzzled and kept on lead all the time

[grendel 0]

Rescue and breeding are hot topics right now in the US; next month the city council of Dallas, Texas, will vote on an ordinance that will require all dogs over the age of six months to be spayed or neutered. Only dogs of AKC recognized breeds whose owners pay a $500 per year fee would be eligible to stay intact.

 

What a disaster. I know it's not a popular point of view but I think the more rigorous we are about preventing breeding the more danger there is of ruining dogs - you end up with highly bred pedigree dogs with defects instead of healthy and robust cross breeds. Pedigree breeders and the Kennel Club between them have managed to ruin many breeds - I was horrified to see the shape the borzois were in at crufts for instance.

I don't know what the answer is but leaving the future of dogs in the hands of pedigree breeders who are happy to churn out dogs that can't breathe and who's hips give up the ghost after a couple of years cannot possibly be the way.

Thankk god working lines are still maintained seperately from f****d up show lines in some breeds.

 

I don't know how to put links to threads already on here but a little while back ditch_shitter posted a link to a blog on an american website terrierman.com entitled "The Blue Solution" which made for some very uncomfortable reading regarding rescue organisations.

What I can't understand is why the official rescue centres are often unwilling to give dogs up to specific breed rescue groups who could perhaps make a better informed decision as to whether a dog could be rehomed or PTS.

If you filter out the patronising tone Kate actually made some important points. Rescue centres are often staffed by well-meaning but seriously misguided animal lovers with no knowledge of working breeds or an unwillingness to accept the facts that the world is not sweet and fluffy. Plus it can be cheaper to buy a new pup than "adopt" a rescue dog with an unknown history/temperament. Better a working dog goes to a working home or is PTS rather than somewhere where it is expected to eat a veggie diet and bunk up with the cat. And yes there is a conflict of interest by supporting a politically motivated, anti-hunting organisation like the RSPCA.

I don't know what the solution is but the fact is it is possible to be a working dog owner/enthusiast and have some compassion for the dogs that are dumped back on society for whatever reason. And we don't need to put lurcher link or similar in the same boat as the RSPCA.

As a retailer I deal with a few companies who trade ethically, often giving a small percentage of their profit back to the community that has made them succesful. Responsible breeders might consider doing the same by supporting working dog rescue centres and more of us giving a few spare quid, if for no other reason than to make us feel better about the animal suffering that does go on up and down the country.

Edited May 24, 2008 by grendel

[Tiff 36]

I occasionally ran into those sorts of attitudes in "town" and in some of the breed specific/no kill rescues, so I either omitted the "working" part of our conversations completely (yes, in essence lied) in order to bail a dog out. But do they ask the general "good" person if they are going to overfeed them and neglect them? No. I think they have some of those stringent rules because of people looking for "cheap" purebreds.

 

The rural/small town and TRUE working rescues were THANKFUL that someone who knew what they were doing was taking this dog off their hands to give them a real, viable chance at a happy, healthy active home. Most of what I bailed was put into sporting dog homes and live full, happy lives with their new owners. Others were "old" dogs that lived out their last few years in a pet home, requested by someone who just wanted a dog. They were older but healthy and were loved and cared for till the end of their days. And again for $13, how could I pass up that fat little spaniel whose owner moved away and left her in the backyard? No I didn't cause the problem but the years I spent being part of the solution were not wasted (IMO)

 

Again it always depended who you were dealing with, how you portrayed yourself, etc. I sometimes think that why in the heck was I allowed to bail dozens of dogs from the same shelter without someone questioning me, but it saved those dozens of lives so I am glad there wasn't more check/balances in place. I can see how someone could abuse that loophole though, and I understand now there are.

 

But this is all another reason why we live in a rural farming community, no one can tell us what to do (within reason of course).

[Scallywag 78]

"Where would we be w/out mongrels...?" how about NOT keep-deep in useless junk!

 

Yes,animals ARE property,though the ARs are trying to whittle that concept away by referring to"guardians"-not OWNERS-& using the "adoption" lie.

 

That's right, if we stuck to purebred dogs we'd get rid of the useless junk like lurchers and the handy terrier crosses we're all working and be left with the fantastically useful chinese crested or cavalier king charles spaniel or even the show hounds and terriers who couldn't do a days work because they're no longer fit for purpose because of the ridiculous breed standards the Kennel Club and the breeders cook up between them. Much better.

And whilst I agree with you that fluffy wuffy attitudes to dogs are repulsive, in my experience many rescues talk about 'adopting' rather than 'buying' a dog so they can get it back if the person mistreats it or decides to get rid of it for some reason and not because they think dogs should be treated like children.

[Scallywag 78]

Well I'll have to take your word for how the rescues in the US work Kate. There are some people with similar attitudes over here but not many and none of the rescues I'm involved with give a toss about those things. In fact recently a rescue I know held back on rehoming a dog with someone because their current dog was unfit and overweight.

And I KNOW it's about the breeders interpretation. That's why I said KC and breeders between them, I think it's a joint effort.

And you're right, not everyone works lurchers and terriers but many do and now you're just nit picking. In fact your entire last post was a bit sloppy - running out of steam, or arguments, or both?

[6pack 60]

That mutt is ****NOT**** AKC recognized!!!! Nor is or will be the "cockapoo,labradoodle,morky" or any other of the mutt/mongrels w/lying "cutsie-poo" labels,stuck on em by crooks just peddle their mongrel crap to the lazy,ignorant ,fad-following-fools.

 

"Where would we be w/out mongrels...?" how about NOT keep-deep in useless junk!

 

Yes,animals ARE property,though the ARs are trying to whittle that concept away by referring to"guardians"-not OWNERS-& using the "adoption" lie.

 

What a peach!! Lurchers ARE mongrels. Just like the Labradoodle! I think you will find most folks mongrels on here are far from useless. Bred to do a job. Dogs breeding was originally 'altered' to allow them to do a specific job. And very few could now do that job they were bred for. Even the pure breeds - from whippies to cockers. The difference between working dogs and show dogs is huge. Working cocker types would be laughed out of a show ring, just as show cockers would never make the grade out in the field.

Am becoming more interested in what you breed? These dogs you have produced since '71, where are they all now?

And the adoption is not a lie - it is the protection of the dog for the rest of its living days. Well it is here in the UK If OWNERS had taken the responsibility for their dog in the first place, then rescues would be nill and void.

 

Im sure the members of this board will appreciate being referred to as "lazy,ignorant ,fad-following-fools"

[lurchergrrl 1,441]

That mutt is ****NOT**** AKC recognized!!!! Nor is or will be the "cockapoo,labradoodle,morky" or any other of the mutt/mongrels w/lying "cutsie-poo" labels,stuck on em by crooks just peddle their mongrel crap to the lazy,ignorant ,fad-following-fools.

 

"Where would we be w/out mongrels...?" how about NOT keep-deep in useless junk!

 

Yes,animals ARE property,though the ARs are trying to whittle that concept away by referring to"guardians"-not OWNERS-& using the "adoption" lie.

 

What a peach!! Lurchers ARE mongrels. Just like the Labradoodle! I think you will find most folks mongrels on here are far from useless. Bred to do a job. Dogs breeding was originally 'altered' to allow them to do a specific job. And very few could now do that job they were bred for. Even the pure breeds - from whippies to cockers. The difference between working dogs and show dogs is huge. Working cocker types would be laughed out of a show ring, just as show cockers would never make the grade out in the field.

Am becoming more interested in what you breed? These dogs you have produced since '71, where are they all now?

And the adoption is not a lie - it is the protection of the dog for the rest of its living days. Well it is here in the UK If OWNERS had taken the responsibility for their dog in the first place, then rescues would be nill and void.

 

Im sure the members of this board will appreciate being referred to as "lazy,ignorant ,fad-following-fools"

 

Go on with your bad self missus

 

I believe our Kate breeds Norwich Terriers? An English breed, no less

[undisputed 1,664]

I have just been browsing through a few lurcher rescue home websites based in the UK.

What amazes me is the shear amount of lurchers, most very young puppies, found as strays/abandoned.

After being on this forum for near a year now, I have seen countless litters of puppies being bred, each time they are garaunteed workers, bred from working parents, will take all legal quarry etc.

What happens to these pups? Does any of them ever make it beyond there 2nd year? Are they abandoned or sold or 'Hang&Bang' d ?

Do any actually live a long and happy life with a working home or do they end up as just being bred to die or go to a charitable rescue home?

Many of these dogs I see on the site look excellent. They seem to have a very good physical conformation, potentially good for your average working lurcher home.

If I were any of ye thinking to breed, think twice about what is going to happen to the pups and is it really necessary to breed.

[/quote,]

 

I'm afraid the problem lies with the assholes who dont have a clue how to train or bring on a young dog these idiots would rather take on an adult dog thats been passed to owner after owner in the forlorn hope they get a dog that will do the buisness. D\ogs are entered to harder quarry to young and can jib and become afraid to tackle anything, so they get moved on and are labbeled as useless, as the old saying goes there is no such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners,

[cúagusgiorraí 57]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

An interesting topic and discussion it has been.

[cúagusgiorraí 57]

..

Edited April 8, 2010 by cúagusgiorraí

[dawnraider 2]

if ever i had the displeasure of meeting kate i would quite happily kick her little arsey warsey back to whatever dimension she raised her arrogent,selfrightious shuved up her own arse head from.KISSES TO YOU TO MUPPET.

[dawnraider 2]

i couldnt give a rats arse about youre choices or preferences,what i do give a shite about is the way you talk to people like you are someone special,have you ever heard of being polite or respectful instead of acting all high and mighty,as if yours is the only opinion that counts,take a break from yourself sound like you need it

[cúagusgiorraí 57]

Uh,what on earth causes you imagine that I haven't ???

 

You seem to have no respect for this type of dog. If you have ever seen one working you would.

 

Anyways lads and lassies this topic has really become a tit for tat sort of thing. Perhaps if there is not anything more of real value to add, then we should leave it for a while and all cool down.

Edited May 25, 2008 by cúagusgiorraí