Reform

[jukel123 9,668]

5 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

How could Farage negotiate the Dublin Agreement?

He wasn’t even an MP, let alone in government .

Yes, Johnson and the Tory’s made a complete mess of Brexit, but the Brexit we got wasn’t the one Farage wanted.

You can hate him all you want, but he isn’t to blame for the Tory’s abysmal surrender deal with the EU.

Cheers.

Surely it was his duty to explain to the British people that withdrawing from Dublin 111 would create a channel free for all?

[jukel123 9,668]

1 minute ago, mackem said:

What % of illegals crossing to the UK prior to brexit from France were returned back to France when apprehended as per the Dublin agreement?

Very few. The same as now. But what freaks people is our island invaded by undocumented migrants in their thousands. Its the image rather than the actuality. It also brings home to people what an easy touch we are.

I

[Bendigo 1,228]

11 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

The boat people make up only about 3% of immigrants annually. It's always been an irrelevance. And most are given leave to stay anyway.

But it's the great symbol of invaded, pissed of Britain. And it keeps The Daily Mail, permanently offended brigade happy .

When you go into any negotiation you must do your research and tie up loose ends. For example, before you tender for a job, the client will present you with a ten page list of clauses full of eventualities which your workmen are responsible for. I used to present them with a similar list checked by legal people to cover myself. It's basic survival.

Farage and Johnstone did not negotiate about the Dublin 111 agreement. They just sold the bare idea of brexit and told lies, one of which that we would spend  350 million a week to improve the NHS.

Complete shambolic incompetents.

 

 

Farage wasn't involved in any negotiations..... He, and most of us, saw the EU as a disgusting globalist free for all and a symbol of everything that is wrong with the leadership of the west. He has devoted his life to leaving. 

He was in no way responsible for the way in which we left. 

I like farage. He's the most successful politician in driving forward with campaigning for change. For the first time he is starting to realize he might have to actually sail this ship.....so in my view he's being realistic. He knows what real change is going to come up against and how hard turning things around is going to be. 

[chartpolski 28,425]

2 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Surely it was his duty to explain to the British people that withdrawing from Dublin 111 would create a channel free for all?

Surely it was the Tory’s duty to use the new found freedom to control our borders and not allow the free for all ?

Farage had absolutely no power then, the government of the day did but refused to use it.

Nothing will convince you of that so there’s no point in continuing.

Cheers.

[mackem 29,964]

2 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Very few. 

So this isn't true then,Brexit in all reality had no bearing on illegals crossing the channel,it isn't Farage who produced the boats,as i said they were adapting and evolving from the syrian Turkey-Greek crossings,they were always coming,Brexit didn't create a new problem in truth,illegals will always find a method and route,Turkey-Greece opened their eyes.

[jukel123 9,668]

5 hours ago, chartpolski said:

It’s a fact that the UK received far more immigrants from the EU than the Uk returned to the EU through the Dublin Agreement.

After Brexit we became able to control our immigration, that we chose not to and Boris allowed massive waves of immigration is hardly Farages fault. He wasn’t in power.

”Farage boats” and “Farage flirted with the Hitler Youth” are just desperate attempts by Labour to smear him, but most aren’t falling for it.

Will Reform be perfect ? Of course not. Will they be better than the legacy parties ? I can only hope so, but I can’t see them being worse.

Cheers.

Personally I don't care what he believed when he was a boy . Its completely irrelevant..Its what he believes in now.

He gives little away.  But what we do know is that he supports fox hunting but not the right to hunt with lurchers.

He supports zero hour contracts.  Great for employers not for workers.

He opposes first day sick pay.  Great for employers not for workers. The fact is that our Covid death toll has been linked to workers  being unable to afford to take time off , which in turn  infected and killed people.

He opposes repeal of the no   fault eviction law. He's a landlord of course. Ba ck to the middle ages with Farage.

He lied about the ownership of his Clacton house and moaned he had  "spent a very expensive week"sorting out his lie with solicitors. We have to do the same Farage !

He is one of the worst performing MPs with regard to attendance and asking questions in the commons. No wonder,   he's often in America ( 8 times) since his election.  He is yet to hold a surgery in Clacton. Says he's scared to.

He has failed to declare he's the owner of a commercial fishing vessel.  Against parliamentary  rules.

He's a big supporter of farmers, not so much farm workers.

He's for 'them' not us. Same as the rest.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by jukel123

[jukel123 9,668]

11 minutes ago, mackem said:

So this isn't true then,Brexit in all reality had no bearing on illegals crossing the channel,it isn't Farage who produced the boats,as i said they were adapting and evolving from the syrian Turkey-Greek crossings,they were always coming,Brexit didn't create a new problem in truth,illegals will always find a method and route,Turkey-Greece opened their eyes.

I'm I total agreement with that mate.

[jukel123 9,668]

16 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

Surely it was the Tory’s duty to use the new found freedom to control our borders and not allow the free for all ?

Farage had absolutely no power then, the government of the day did but refused to use it.

Nothing will convince you of that so there’s no point in continuing.

Cheers.

That would be an awful loss.

[mackem 29,964]

1 minute ago, jukel123 said:

I'm I total agreement with that mate.

Wires crossed mate,I am saying Farage didn't spawn the boats,the syrian conflict did,your saying Farage and Brexit created the boats,so we can't be agreeing.

[mackem 29,964]

30 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Surely it was his duty to explain to the British people that withdrawing from Dublin 111 would create a channel free for all?

But it didn't create a free channel,by your own admission prior to Brexit very few were sent back to France,after Brexit very few are sent back to France so very little if anything has changed?

[jukel123 9,668]

6 minutes ago, mackem said:

Wires crossed mate,I am saying Farage didn't spawn the boats,the syrian conflict did,your saying Farage and Brexit created the boats,so we can't be agreeing.

I just checked the figures Mack. Syrians made up 12% of boat people last year.

[jukel123 9,668]

1 minute ago, mackem said:

But it didn't create a free channel,by your own admission prior to Brexit very few were sent back to France,after Brexit very few are sent back to France so very little if anything has changed?

Except the numbers and the perception. More have come in by boat than by lorry etc, and they are visible. Which freaks people out.

[mackem 29,964]

2 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

I just checked the figures Mack. Syrians made up 12% of boat people last year.

I actually said the method evolved from the conflict Turkey-Greek crossings starting in 2015,some of the same people are using it now to ferry people across the Channel,it was always going to happen irrespective of Brexit,Farage didn't produce this route or means.

[mackem 29,964]

3 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Except the numbers and the perception. More have come in by boat than by lorry etc, 

Now yes,I said posts back evolution/evolving,its how it works.

[WILF 51,020]

56 minutes ago, Bendigo said:

Farage wasn't involved in any negotiations..... He, and most of us, saw the EU as a disgusting globalist free for all and a symbol of everything that is wrong with the leadership of the west. He has devoted his life to leaving. 

He was in no way responsible for the way in which we left. 

I like farage. He's the most successful politician in driving forward with campaigning for change. For the first time he is starting to realize he might have to actually sail this ship.....so in my view he's being realistic. He knows what real change is going to come up against and how hard turning things around is going to be. 

Very fair point 

However, immigration is a waste of breath if we don’t elect people who are willing to go far enough to do something about it that actually makes any meaningful difference to our daily lives……it’s no good hearing it, you have to see it and feel it.

Are ex Tory’s who thought it was all a jolly good idea in the first place the people to do that ?……