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I couldn't agree more pal . What I'm saying is . A proven stud is exactly that . And the owner , if he's clever .won't be displaying his charge to all and sundry.  It's a sad fact of today's society ( dog thieves) as two crows said  there's a few out there covering any bitch that comes , and they have been real good dogs . But look past their ability (breeding) . Where's the good siblings , parents or grandparents? . Then ask where are the good pups out this dog . You will at least hear about them as people can't keep their gob shut. There are lads out there that are brutally honest.  If you consult the honest men they will give you an opinion . If the owner of potential dam listens , he might find he's had blinkers on . As you say . It's a lottery , but if number 9 keeps coming up on a Saturday,  are you going to have it as one of your numbers in next lottery.  Of course you will . All we can do is lessen our odds .👍

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good post benny, I hate these kind of threads because any practical answer always comes across negative, the bitch the chap wants to breed from may be a good honest bitch, and crossing her to a coursi

Good studs are hard to come bye . You need to know if he's already a producer . How strong his lineage goes back out of proven dogs.  The traits he throws , and if they suit your bitches style . Then

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14 minutes ago, bendrover said:

I couldn't agree more pal . What I'm saying is . A proven stud is exactly that . And the owner , if he's clever .won't be displaying his charge to all and sundry.  It's a sad fact of today's society ( dog thieves) as two crows said  there's a few out there covering any bitch that comes , and they have been real good dogs . But look past their ability (breeding) . Where's the good siblings , parents or grandparents? . Then ask where are the good pups out this dog . You will at least hear about them as people can't keep their gob shut. There are lads out there that are brutally honest.  If you consult the honest men they will give you an opinion . If the owner of potential dam listens , he might find he's had blinkers on . As you say . It's a lottery , but if number 9 keeps coming up on a Saturday,  are you going to have it as one of your numbers in next lottery.  Of course you will . All we can do is lessen our odds .👍

That's what I mean Ben how many good dogs that when bred tight or to good bitches produced decent of spring but When put out on open stud for coin to anything with no thought it can damage that dogs rep as a stud because the first thing any one will mention is the studs name the biggest problem with some is honestly and coin and little thought in what such a lining could produce 

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