Aliens

[Kerny92 1,246]

The universe is that vast that even if they were way more advanced than us they would still have great difficulty reaching us.

Let's put this into perspective, Voyager 1 is traveling at around 38,000 mph, it will take around 40,000 years to reach the nearest star which is just over 4 light years away.

[jiggy 3,209]

11 hours ago, baker boy said:

Mate theres stuff on the sea bottom probably brighter than most of us

There is stones on the sea bed brighter than some on here.

[mushroom 13,903]

53 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

Well all I can say is thank God for Space Force! If its a bug planet then they will be our only defence!

Lol I saw what you did there

[Born Hunter 17,907]

1 hour ago, Kerny92 said:

The universe is that vast that even if they were way more advanced than us they would still have great difficulty reaching us.

Let's put this into perspective, Voyager 1 is traveling at around 38,000 mph, it will take around 40,000 years to reach the nearest star which is just over 4 light years away.

40'000 years relative to the stationary observer. Potentially the travellers on the space ship would experience much less time. A ship that accelerates at 1G, to simulate Earth gravity, could in theory cross the Universe in around 12 years.

Also, there is of course the speculative fields of faster than light travel.

 

Edit: I'm talking about travelling to distance stars here, not Voyager which is going too slow to benefit from the time dilation effect I'm implying. Sorry, I confused your Voyager point with your travelling to distant stars one. My broad point is still valid though.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Born Hunter
Read it too fast.

[scothunter 12,609]

2 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

40'000 years relative to the stationary observer. Potentially the travellers on the space ship would experience much less time. A ship that accelerates at 1G, to simulate Earth gravity, could in theory cross the Universe in around 12 years.

Also, there is of course the speculative fields of faster than light travel.

Meh!

[Kerny92 1,246]

40 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

40'000 years relative to the stationary observer. Potentially the travellers on the space ship would experience much less time. A ship that accelerates at 1G, to simulate Earth gravity, could in theory cross the Universe in around 12 years.

Also, there is of course the speculative fields of faster than light travel.

 

Edit: I'm talking about travelling to distance stars here, not Voyager which is going too slow to benefit from the time dilation effect I'm implying. Sorry, I confused your Voyager point with your travelling to distant stars one. My broad point is still valid though.

The difficulty of relativistic travel tends to be underestimated. Look at it this way. To get to the speed where time travels half as fast for the ship, you also end up doubling the mass of the spacecraft. That extra mass has to be paid for somehow. It's paid for by the energy you impart to the ship through acceleration. If you accelerated that ship by imparting energy from the outside with a perfect, 100% efficient system, you'd have to turn a kilo  of matter into pure energy with no losses for every kilo you increased the ships mass.
 And it's much worse with a self contained rocket. You also need to accelerate the fuel that you haven't used yet. 
 So, it comes down to, to accelerate to a speed where time for the ship is 10% that measured by someone standing still and slow down again once you reach your destination, you'd need the most perfect imaginable system (with today's physics) and spend 99.99% of your initial mass to do it. 
 Anything better will need more than technology. It will take different physics than we understand now. 

[Born Hunter 17,907]

1 minute ago, Kerny92 said:

The difficulty of relativistic travel tends to be underestimated. Look at it this way. To get to the speed where time travels half as fast for the ship, you also end up doubling the mass of the spacecraft. That extra mass has to be paid for somehow. It's paid for by the energy you impart to the ship through acceleration. If you accelerated that ship by imparting energy from the outside with a perfect, 100% efficient system, you'd have to turn a kilo  of matter into pure energy with no losses for every kilo you increased the ships mass.
 And it's much worse with a self contained rocket. You also need to accelerate the fuel that you haven't used yet. 
 So, it comes down to, to accelerate to a speed where time for the ship is 10% that measured by someone standing still and slow down again once you reach your destination, you'd need the most perfect imaginable system (with today's physics) and spend 99.99% of your initial mass to do it. 
 Anything better will need more than technology. It will take different physics than we understand now. 

I don't think it's underestimated at all.

The point is that it's a technological challenge, not a physical impossibility. So it's not quite as improbable, that another intelligent life-form will take to galactic space exploration, as first seems. They just need a level of technological advancement to make it worth while endeavour.

Special relativity makes it possible in short periods of time but at the expense of returning to the world and society you left.

Other speculative fields, such as FTL and wormholes etc may offer options that do not have that drawback.

[mushroom 13,903]

Physics and theoretical maths allow for faster than light travel. It's technology that has the limitations. Also energy for faster than light travel theoretically can be taken from the quantum level and beyond. String theory if proven is basically unlimited energy. Tapping into it, is theoretically just as possible as harnessing fission energy, same with fusion, It's just far more complicated and at this moment beyond our understanding. 

[terryd 8,920]

took the words right out of my mouth

Edited July 26, 2018 by terryd

[Born Hunter 17,907]

26 minutes ago, mushroom said:

Physics and theoretical maths allow for faster than light travel. It's technology that has the limitations. Also energy for faster than light travel theoretically can be taken from the quantum level and beyond. String theory if proven is basically unlimited energy. Tapping into it, is theoretically just as possible as harnessing fission energy, same with fusion, It's just far more complicated and at this moment beyond our understanding. 

Though faster than light travel may be possible we do not yet know if it's possible to actually achieve it ourselves, physically that is, never mind technologically. What I mean is, there's not necessarily any physical limit on FTL velocities, as you point out, but light speed itself is a hard limit so it may not be possible to actually cross that limit. Effectively making FTL physically impossible. Unless we found a physical way of accelerating from stationary to FTL without actually at any point having to travel at light speed. That's be akin to accelerating your car from stationary to 100mph without at any point doing say 60mph. It's a pretty radical concept.

This is all pretty speculative though.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Born Hunter

[mushroom 13,903]

4 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

Though faster than light travel may be possible we do not yet know if it's possible to actually achieve it ourselves, physically that is, never mind technologically. What I mean is, there's not necessarily any physical limit on FTL velocities, as you point out, but light speed itself is a hard limit so it may not be possible to actually cross that limit. Effectively making FTL physically impossible. Unless we found a physical way of accelerating from stationary to FTL without actually at any point having to travel at light speed. That's be akin to accelerating your car from stationary to 100mph without at any point doing say 60mph. It's a pretty radical concept.

This is all pretty speculative though.

See this is why I studied maths and engineering 

Fascinates me. It's all actually theoretically possible, we just don't know how to. For example if we could harness gravity, create and control it, in conjunction with a unlimited power source to power propulsion.... there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to hit and surpass LS. If we are moving an entire gravity field (say around a ship) then the jump to LS shouldn't be felt and no red stains on the back wall lol

[Born Hunter 17,907]

Also, here's an interesting concept. The 'time constraint' is only really an issue because we are biological lifeforms who have finite lifetimes as a result of our biology. A life-form that has advanced to the stage of being capable of high end space exploration will quite plausibly have 'evolved' to the stage of partially or entirely being a technological life-form, a robot/android. In which case does the 'time constraint' problem of space exploration still apply? Would an intelligent species that have technological 'bodies' care about millions or even billions of years travelling?

If you believe this is the most likely scenario then in all probability it wont be little green men visiting us but little grey androids!

[Born Hunter 17,907]

5 minutes ago, maxhardcore said:

Nobody knows' not even the most intelligent minds working for the most powerful Governments.

Its all what ifs why's and when's .

Guesswork at best.

Party pooper!

[mushroom 13,903]

33 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

Also, here's an interesting concept. The 'time constraint' is only really an issue because we are biological lifeforms who have finite lifetimes as a result of our biology. A life-form that has advanced to the stage of being capable of high end space exploration will quite plausibly have 'evolved' to the stage of partially or entirely being a technological life-form, a robot/android. In which case does the 'time constraint' problem of space exploration still apply? Would an intelligent species that have technological 'bodies' care about millions or even billions of years travelling?

If you believe this is the most likely scenario then in all probability it wont be little green men visiting us but little grey androids!

Of course it's possible and here's the head basher..... If the universe is infinite then it's happened/happening/will happen lol

I lean towards the idea if type 2 or 3 civilisations are out there, they probably send AI about the universe like in FOTN but still retain their biological form

Who knows maybe they populate planets with gates that allow instant travel

[Kerny92 1,246]

The other thing to ponder is if they are much more advanced than us then why would they even want to send us any signals of their existence, they would have much bigger fish to fry.