Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
neems

The Truth About Positive Dog Training

Recommended Posts

But how is the ordinary dog-owner to tell the difference? Or, for that matter, the average local 'dog-trainer/ behaviourist', that they consult when their dog shows aggression?

For some reason it wont let me post the photos, so had to use links.

 

Because different body language is shown.

 

for fear

They may show avoidance, licking of lips, low body, no eye contact, turning head away.

 

my bitch when i brought her home ( she is a rescue dog), deemed a dangerous dog and if the law had of changed before then she would have been pts

as she did bite without warning and did bite a further two more times just weeks after bringing her home, due to not her fault, but people not listening to what they were told.

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/111192008996311547239/album/AF1QipPDcGTP-FwZCBaxMzoOVh6bm3Tt_YYyHnh8V6s/AF1QipNfvZdOpsBlpP1c6tVCEHkFtXLmXh2SdxgxqtI

 

Taken just a few short weeks after arriving, you can see the difference in the way she is, she looks more relaxed.

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/111192008996311547239/album/AF1QipPDcGTP-FwZCBaxMzoOVh6bm3Tt_YYyHnh8V6s/AF1QipPEetniMHhOdldxUhMkbeJZa2ceo8z6mtnhBeI

 

The same bitch over 4 years later, in the first year this picture would not have been possible, as she would avoided contact with anyone she did not know,

she now will go up to anyone to be fussed, is quite happy for anyone to hold her and quite happily will lounge around with my nephews having a fuss.

 

from what we can piece together she was a working dog before coming to me, i've not had to do anything with her on the working side.

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/111192008996311547239/album/AF1QipPtZB65Xr8nbba5omdkcpdWYB0kFqxpP3tlZ1g/AF1QipOfE6NGiMZJdLfJl9wqRSFMcTpt8wEQrO8mAm0?authKey=CLWH-MqRooDm7QE

 

 

Now an aggressive dog, may be more forward, may try to make its self look bigger, it will also give eye contact

ears will be up etc etc.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But how is the ordinary dog-owner to tell the difference? Or, for that matter, the average local 'dog-trainer/ behaviourist', that they consult when their dog shows aggression?

For some reason it wont let me post the photos, so had to use links.

 

Because different body language is shown.

 

for fear

They may show avoidance, licking of lips, low body, no eye contact, turning head away.

 

 

 

 

My dog does that a bit well the lip licking and turning away and I all ways wondered why I have never mistreated him at all. He likes to be left alone at times espeacially if tired. I all ways thought he was a big bold chap but it is not the case. I have noticed he doesn't like being approached by strange men if i am not with him. Some fella stroked him up the allotment and I was the other end of the plot. He rolled on his back and the bloke tickled his belly then got a bit of rumble off him so walked away and he jumped up and made a dummy run to nip his heel. So some thing I am aware of now. If I am with him his perfect and as for kids and women they away get loads of tail wagging and a good slobbering lol if he has the chance but I all ways keep him under control around them.

 

Really nice to see how your dog turned out :thumbs:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What your dog is showing is submissive behavours, he's giving lots of signals out to say he's uncomfortable, when the bloke walks off thats the dogs chance to scare the threat away.

 

To understand dogs you really need to understand what there saying, dogs give us clear signals every day, its just we tend to ignore them.

 

There is a book called on talking terms with dogs, i haven't read it yet, even though I've got the book, but its supposed to be quite good.

en.turid-rugaas.no/calming-signals---the-art-of-survival.html

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes learnt a lot off this dog and our relationship is getting better and better. His a fine fella despite any little issues he has

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

But how is the ordinary dog-owner to tell the difference? Or, for that matter, the average local 'dog-trainer/ behaviourist', that they consult when their dog shows aggression?

For some reason it wont let me post the photos, so had to use links.

 

Because different body language is shown.

 

for fear

They may show avoidance, licking of lips, low body, no eye contact, turning head away.

 

my bitch when i brought her home ( she is a rescue dog), deemed a dangerous dog and if the law had of changed before then she would have been pts

as she did bite without warning and did bite a further two more times just weeks after bringing her home, due to not her fault, but people not listening to what they were told.

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/111192008996311547239/album/AF1QipPDcGTP-FwZCBaxMzoOVh6bm3Tt_YYyHnh8V6s/AF1QipNfvZdOpsBlpP1c6tVCEHkFtXLmXh2SdxgxqtI

 

Taken just a few short weeks after arriving, you can see the difference in the way she is, she looks more relaxed.

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/111192008996311547239/album/AF1QipPDcGTP-FwZCBaxMzoOVh6bm3Tt_YYyHnh8V6s/AF1QipPEetniMHhOdldxUhMkbeJZa2ceo8z6mtnhBeI

 

The same bitch over 4 years later, in the first year this picture would not have been possible, as she would avoided contact with anyone she did not know,

she now will go up to anyone to be fussed, is quite happy for anyone to hold her and quite happily will lounge around with my nephews having a fuss.

 

from what we can piece together she was a working dog before coming to me, i've not had to do anything with her on the working side.

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/111192008996311547239/album/AF1QipPtZB65Xr8nbba5omdkcpdWYB0kFqxpP3tlZ1g/AF1QipOfE6NGiMZJdLfJl9wqRSFMcTpt8wEQrO8mAm0?authKey=CLWH-MqRooDm7QE

 

 

Now an aggressive dog, may be more forward, may try to make its self look bigger, it will also give eye contact

ears will be up etc etc.

What your ultimately saying bud is there is no fear in aggression which is a complete nonsense sending out a dangerous message , fear biters are the largest percentage removed from home

 

A large fearful breed is one of the most dangerous animals in our mist because he feels more secure confronting kids , they offer less resistance than adults

What you unsure about is temperment and the display of such ,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did i say there was no fear in aggression, theres different types of aggression and not all of them has fear behind it, dogs will also show that fear in different ways.

 

One i had pts just before christmas was fear aggressive towards other dogs, he showed some of the classic signals but also some different signals as well to show he was stressed and that was chewing himself and if pushed to much he would hyperventilate.

 

Now another dog i met a couple of weeks ago whilst doing a home check showed different signals again, hackles up, bouncing up and down on front legs, barking and going in to a bow, with in 10 minutes the same dog was placing a toy on my lap, all dogs can show different responses, its how you interpret them what counts, interpret them wrong and you end up bitten or worse still screwing a dog up further.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did i say there was no fear in aggression, theres different types of aggression and not all of them has fear behind it, dogs will also show that fear in different ways.

 

One i had pts just before christmas was fear aggressive towards other dogs, he showed some of the classic signals but also some different signals as well to show he was stressed and that was chewing himself and if pushed to much he would hyperventilate.

 

Now another dog i met a couple of weeks ago whilst doing a home check showed different signals again, hackles up, bouncing up and down on front legs, barking and going in to a bow, with in 10 minutes the same dog was placing a toy on my lap, all dogs can show different responses, its how you interpret them what counts, interpret them wrong and you end up bitten or worse still screwing a dog up further.

It's all part of the positive claptrap ," there are many types of aggression "what I'm saying there is one aggression but just different temperaments that's how it's going to be expressed in a different manner

 

Some dogs implode some explod depending on temperament , why complicate things , trying to blind people with science

 

How complicated do you think dogs are , what's the bottom line bud

 

Try explaining the nature of dogs , it's not difficult but then I suppose you'll say there are many different natures

 

Your doing home checks on people but you don't really understand the nature of dogs, your in a self serving position that lets you make judgments but at the root of it all you're all just making it up as you go along, it's not about dogs it's about you

Edited by Casso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Where did i say there was no fear in aggression, theres different types of aggression and not all of them has fear behind it, dogs will also show that fear in different ways.

 

One i had pts just before christmas was fear aggressive towards other dogs, he showed some of the classic signals but also some different signals as well to show he was stressed and that was chewing himself and if pushed to much he would hyperventilate.

 

Now another dog i met a couple of weeks ago whilst doing a home check showed different signals again, hackles up, bouncing up and down on front legs, barking and going in to a bow, with in 10 minutes the same dog was placing a toy on my lap, all dogs can show different responses, its how you interpret them what counts, interpret them wrong and you end up bitten or worse still screwing a dog up further.

It's all part of the positive claptrap ," there are many types of aggression "what I'm saying there is one aggression but just different temperaments that's how it's going to be expressed in a different manner

 

Some dogs implode some explod depending on temperament , why complicate things , trying to blind people with science

 

How complicated do you think dogs are , what's the bottom line bud

 

Try explaining the nature of dogs , it's not difficult but then I suppose you'll say there are many different natures

 

Your doing home checks on people but you don't really understand the nature of dogs, your in a self serving position that lets you make judgments but at the root of it all you're all just making it up as you go along, it's not about dogs it's about you

Oh dear it's like mummy and daddy fighting again!!!!!!

Casso I've read so many of your archived advice posts and Chook1 I've seen your pics. You both have so much to offer the unwitting dog-owner. I can't be the only one who ends up here.

Please remember that there are probs thousands of people like, me who end up here looking for advice or info..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Where did i say there was no fear in aggression, theres different types of aggression and not all of them has fear behind it, dogs will also show that fear in different ways.

 

One i had pts just before christmas was fear aggressive towards other dogs, he showed some of the classic signals but also some different signals as well to show he was stressed and that was chewing himself and if pushed to much he would hyperventilate.

 

Now another dog i met a couple of weeks ago whilst doing a home check showed different signals again, hackles up, bouncing up and down on front legs, barking and going in to a bow, with in 10 minutes the same dog was placing a toy on my lap, all dogs can show different responses, its how you interpret them what counts, interpret them wrong and you end up bitten or worse still screwing a dog up further.

It's all part of the positive claptrap ," there are many types of aggression "what I'm saying there is one aggression but just different temperaments that's how it's going to be expressed in a different manner

 

Some dogs implode some explod depending on temperament , why complicate things , trying to blind people with science

 

How complicated do you think dogs are , what's the bottom line bud

 

Try explaining the nature of dogs , it's not difficult but then I suppose you'll say there are many different natures

 

Your doing home checks on people but you don't really understand the nature of dogs, your in a self serving position that lets you make judgments but at the root of it all you're all just making it up as you go along, it's not about dogs it's about you

Oh dear it's like mummy and daddy fighting again!!!!!!

Casso I've read so many of your archived advice posts and Chook1 I've seen your pics. You both have so much to offer the unwitting dog-owner. I can't be the only one who ends up here.

Please remember that there are probs thousands of people like, me who end up here looking for advice or info..

Ok , I get ya , this dog stuff can get a bit frustrating because everyone has such entrenched views , I've work hard to try to get to the root of the dog and I'm sure Chook has done the same but keeping a dog social is not a difficult thing but I don't see the positive side addressing the harmony brought by letting the mutt express natural canine behaviour

, in fact sometimes I wonder if they really understand dogs at all

 

The positive crowd have been knocking folk for years without coming up with a real alternative because the positive angle can only get you so

far

 

Everything a dog addresses in its environment is approached through a predator/ prey mind set , it can't just switch that off , it's how it sees the world through Predator/Prey goggles , it's as simple as that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Where did i say there was no fear in aggression, theres different types of aggression and not all of them has fear behind it, dogs will also show that fear in different ways.

 

One i had pts just before christmas was fear aggressive towards other dogs, he showed some of the classic signals but also some different signals as well to show he was stressed and that was chewing himself and if pushed to much he would hyperventilate.

 

Now another dog i met a couple of weeks ago whilst doing a home check showed different signals again, hackles up, bouncing up and down on front legs, barking and going in to a bow, with in 10 minutes the same dog was placing a toy on my lap, all dogs can show different responses, its how you interpret them what counts, interpret them wrong and you end up bitten or worse still screwing a dog up further.

It's all part of the positive claptrap ," there are many types of aggression "what I'm saying there is one aggression but just different temperaments that's how it's going to be expressed in a different manner

 

Some dogs implode some explod depending on temperament , why complicate things , trying to blind people with science

 

How complicated do you think dogs are , what's the bottom line bud

 

Try explaining the nature of dogs , it's not difficult but then I suppose you'll say there are many different natures

 

Your doing home checks on people but you don't really understand the nature of dogs, your in a self serving position that lets you make judgments but at the root of it all you're all just making it up as you go along, it's not about dogs it's about you

 

 

 

Well seeing as i've been H/C people for the last ten years, also transporting unknown dogs ie pound dogs and have took strays directly in to my home

with my own dogs,

i've never got one wrong yet, all dogs are still happy in their homes.

 

Casso

 

Who said i was positive only and who said i don't let the mutts display natural behavior ?

 

cause i can assure you i very much do, you can learn a lot by watching the dogs natural behavour

and suppressing that behavior can often do more harm than good, why do you think

my bitch was not pts when she bit an adult family member ( no blood was drawn), for the simple fact her natural behavour

ie warning before biting had been suppressed, by who ever had owned her, her only way to show she was not happy was to bite

once i understood her triggers and her signals ( which were very small) they was worked on and if she did snap

i put that down to my fault for not listening to her, using negative training or even adverse would simply not have worked with her.

 

 

Squeamish5

 

Were not fighting lol its just a simple debate

its actually good to debate things once in a while.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Where did i say there was no fear in aggression, theres different types of aggression and not all of them has fear behind it, dogs will also show that fear in different ways.

One i had pts just before christmas was fear aggressive towards other dogs, he showed some of the classic signals but also some different signals as well to show he was stressed and that was chewing himself and if pushed to much he would hyperventilate.

Now another dog i met a couple of weeks ago whilst doing a home check showed different signals again, hackles up, bouncing up and down on front legs, barking and going in to a bow, with in 10 minutes the same dog was placing a toy on my lap, all dogs can show different responses, its how you interpret them what counts, interpret them wrong and you end up bitten or worse still screwing a dog up further.

 

It's all part of the positive claptrap ," there are many types of aggression "what I'm saying there is one aggression but just different temperaments that's how it's going to be expressed in a different manner

Some dogs implode some explod depending on temperament , why complicate things , trying to blind people with science

How complicated do you think dogs are , what's the bottom line bud

Try explaining the nature of dogs , it's not difficult but then I suppose you'll say there are many different natures

Your doing home checks on people but you don't really understand the nature of dogs, your in a self serving position that lets you make judgments but at the root of it all you're all just making it up as you go along, it's not about dogs it's about you

 

Well seeing as i've been H/C people for the last ten years, also transporting unknown dogs ie pound dogs and have took strays directly in to my home

with my own dogs,

i've never got one wrong yet, all dogs are still happy in their homes.

 

Casso

 

Who said i was positive only and who said i don't let the mutts display natural behavior ?

 

cause i can assure you i very much do, you can learn a lot by watching the dogs natural behavour

and suppressing that behavior can often do more harm than good, why do you think

my bitch was not pts when she bit an adult family member ( no blood was drawn), for the simple fact her natural behavour

ie warning before biting had been suppressed, by who ever had owned her, her only way to show she was not happy was to bite

once i understood her triggers and her signals ( which were very small) they was worked on and if she did snap

i put that down to my fault for not listening to her, using negative training or even adverse would simply not have worked with her.

 

 

Squeamish5

 

Were not fighting lol its just a simple debate

its actually good to debate things once in a while.

 

I appreciate your honesty Chook my focus is more on getting the bite out, they learn by contrast what to bite and what NOT to bite

That's more the natural expression I'm lookin for .

Best of luck

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting to watch dog behavior Chook but the dog is just portraying how he feels in that particular moment , his behavior is immediate moment

 

He not showing another his feelings he is his feeling , he can't pretend

He can't bluff, there is no intent it's about what the external stimulation make him feel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm argueing that dogs are social by nature , pups are born social , they just need to be kept that way by assessing their prey making facility

 

The hunt is what keeps wolf life social not the pack , the pack is fractious with a lot of infighting , the hunt brings harmony ,

 

Neither the positive or dominance side address this as a way of having a social dog, they can't get the link between the hunt in whatever form that takes and a bonded state of being in the dog

 

He doesn't become social because of dominance/ positive he become social in spite of it , a lot of dogs don't make it to a happy life a lot crash and burn living in a human environment but thanks to the absolute social nature of dogs most of them put up with all sorts of shit thrown at with our lack of understanding

Edited by Casso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm argueing that dogs are social by nature , pups are born social , they just need to be kept that way by assessing their prey making facility

 

The hunt is what keeps wolf life social not the pack , the pack is fractious with a lot of infighting , the hunt brings harmony ,

 

Neither the positive or dominance side address this as a way of having a social dog, they can't get the link between the hunt in whatever form that takes and a bonded state of being in the dog

 

He doesn't become social because of dominance/ positive he become social in spite of it , a lot of dogs don't make it to a happy life a lot crash and burn living in a human environment but thanks to the absolute social nature of dogs most of them put up with all sorts of shit thrown at with our lack of understanding

:thumbs:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Bloody hell, phew took some watching.

Unbelievable they teaching that and dismissing facts.

 

That English 'celebrity' dog trainer's dangerous,she's got people bitten on her show,imagine how many accidents there's been from people following her advice.

 

 

There are stories out there about Cesar Milan's APBTs killing his client's dogs. Those TV trainers come in, get a dog to relax for a while, get that recorded and edited then leave and pretend that half day of 'training' makes the dogs like model citizens for the rest of their days.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...