gnasher16 31,489 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 What a bizarre little game its great seeing traditions of different areas that still stand strong......." bollocks to Betfred and online poker lets throw a ball down a hill " great stuff. I won a nice few quid driving up to Liverpool at the weekend......good old Eddie Stobart ! .... no matter how old we get,when your around pals that old " i bet ya " mentality never leaves us Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rebel 846 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 This is a very popular sport in Cork and Armagh and in other smaller areas around Ireland. I believe the Irish used to play it in Dagenham on a Sunday morning long ago. As Jigsaw said, there's skill involved in the game. You have to be strong, accurate, cute and have the stuff to throw good bowls, with the pressure of someone betting on you to win. Some of the big scores would have thousands on the stake and lads also betting on the road. My father was involved in bowling all his life, playing, administrator and referee and spent his Sunday mornings and summer evenings bowling. He got some enjoyment from that sport. I believe that a famous terrierman who keeps a very good strain of white dogs was a handy bowler in his day. Jigsaw might know more about that? A bit like the dogs and a lot of other things in life, a lot of it is about the friends you make, the people you meet, the characters, the craic you have. Most of the bowling roads I know start and finish at a pub, which was also a big attraction, haha. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,489 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Dagenham is home to the biggest council estate in Europe......i cant think where the hills,lanes and hedgerows would be Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rebel 846 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Dagenham is home to the biggest council estate in Europe......i cant think where the hills,lanes and hedgerows would be Gnasher, All they need is a couple of miles of tarmac, the queens highways are probably as good a place as any to play, haha. I didn't get a chance to read this yet, but it looks to be a good article, you might know some of the places mentioned? http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/another-country-another-ball-game-near-ford-motors-in-dagenham-an-irish-match-of-which-jack-charlton-knows-nothing-except-the-passion-report-by-cal-mccrystal-1422603.html 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,489 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Rebel that link doesnt work mate its a shame as it would be interesting to see the ins and outs of the game/sport i wouldnt mind a crack at that just for a giggle.........not for money though you Irishmen are famous for how far you can hurl a rock !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jigsaw 11,902 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/another-country-another-ball-game-near-ford-motors-in-dagenham-an-irish-match-of-which-jack-charlton-knows-nothing-except-the-passion-report-by-cal-mccrystal-1422603.html NEWS VIDEO PEOPLE VOICES SPORT TECH LIFE Fashion Food and Drink Health & Families History Gadgets and Tech Motoring Dating Crosswords Gaming Competitions PROPERTY ARTS + ENTS TRAVEL MONEY INDYBEST STUDENT OFFERS Frontpage > Life Another country, another ball game: Near Ford Motors in Dagenham, an Irish match of which Jack Charlton knows nothing, except the passion. Report by Cal McCrystal. CAL MCCRYSTAL Tuesday 14 June 1994 1 PRINT A A A Every Sunday afternoon, on a narrow English road that winds through cow parsley, alders, high nettles and struggling brambles, hundreds of Irishmen gather to wager huge sums of money on a sport to which no Englishman has easy access. It is called road bowling, played with a 28oz steel ball which, in the hands of the inexperienced, can inflict massive pain on spectators, either in lost bets or broken limbs. The venue for the sport is an otherwise peaceful spot along Launders Lane, between the A13 and Upminster Road, three miles from the Ford motor works at Dagenham. Across a hedge on one side, a glimpse may be had of sandpit workings, quiet on a Sunday. Beyond a wall on the other side, white gravestones stretch across the East London Jewish Cemetery, also subdued on the Christian Sabbath. But by mid-afternoon, the roars and cries of the road bowlers and their attendants are almost loud enough to raise the dead. Last Sunday, the Irishmen - women have their own games, played with a 16oz ball; they are discouraged from watching the lads at play - competed for the junior finals. The aim is to hurl the ball, underarm, as far up Launders Lane as one can, then pick it up and hurl it again. The process continues for a mile, after which the bowlers repeat it back the way they came. Bookmakers were in attendance. Before the first game started, between Denis Burke, a crane-driver from West Cork, and Francis Coyle, a Sligo sub-contractor, one bookie was waving a thick wad of pounds 50 notes. By the time Mr Burke had won, lowing cattle in a nearby field had been cowed into silence, birdsong had ceased, a blue Vauxhall had been dented, a spectator named Tony had broken his wrist, and a terrible fight between Mr Coyle and the referee, Pat Sullivan, had been averted (though only just). Like Mr Coyle, about half the following are travellers. The rest are referred to as 'county men' - possibly because, being less peripatetic, county origin is more important. Other subtle differences may be noted: the travellers, casually dressed, tended to arrive in gleaming Mercedes and BMW cars. Most of the county men, in their Sunday-best, arrived in old bangers or on buses. Mr Coyle bowled in a misshapen sport shirt, jeans and trainers, while Mr Burke was dapper in a neat cotton shirt, smart blue trousers and polished brown shoes. At first, strangers are eyed suspiciously, even asked for identification. Gradually, as bets are taken (noted on the backs of envelopes), and the bowlers warm up with a few throws, typical Irish hospitality takes over and the secrets of the game revealed. 'There's a bowler in the Novice B Class called Hitler O'Reagan,' I was informed outside the Jewish cemetery gates. 'He's from West Cork, and he was called Hitler by his mammy because he was born during the war. People look up when they hear his name.' Road bowling has four competitive levels: novice,junior, intermediate and senior (all divided into classes A, B and C). Some players prefer to linger in, say, junior B, where they have a greater chance of victory, than enter a higher class. 'Now, these fellows today,' John O'Driscoll predicted (accurately as it turned out), 'it'll take them 12 to 13 shots to get down the road. That's because they're juniors. A good bowler could do it in eight shots.' Front teeth missing, Mr O'Driscoll, 29, shouted to three acquaintances downing Budweisers. 'If someone has too much to drink we don't let him play. . .too dangerous,' he explained. At this point, a practice bowl smacks into the blue Vauxhall parked against a hedge. Dust rises; eyebrows don't. 'The oldest player was Mick Barry from Cork,' one of the crowd said. 'He's 73 and still playing today. No, he's not here - he's in Cork, the best player in Ireland.' Mr O'Driscoll pushed his face into mine. 'Listen,' he said, 'John-John O'Driscoll, who's 63, beat Mick Barry last year in the All-Ireland.' He was speaking of his father. His voice broke slightly as he added: 'And there was one man who died. . .Christy O'Driscoll . . .and he was the greatest bowler who ever played. He could make a bowl talk to you.' I asked how Christy had died, imagining a 28oz dent to the head. 'Don't ask,' Mr O'Driscoll said, his voice shaking. When he had gone, someone whispered: 'He was stabbed, or shot.' Road bowling, it seems, originated in Holland where the flat thoroughfares presented ideal conditions. Dutch weavers introduced it briefly to England, where it never caught on. At the end of the 17th century, according to Jerome Casey, an expert on the subject, it reached Cork. There are 2,000 road bowlers in Cork. The other main centre in Ireland is Armagh, north of the border. But clubs have begun to appear in Limerick, Mayo, Waterford and Meath, all belonging to Bol Cumann nah Eireann (Irish Bowling League). The senior league final was won in Armagh three weeks ago by Finchey Dooley, a Cork-born member of the Dagenham club. One man who bet on the outcome won pounds 6,000. As the Dutch continue to play and the Germans are also devotees (sometimes using wooden bowls with a leaden core), the sport has gone international. The last international road bowling event was won by Germany in 1992. The next one will be held in 1996. Melbourne, Australia and Boston, Massachusetts are said to be addicted. How did it come to be played in Launders Lane exclusively by Irishmen, the majority of whom are from County Cork? Answer: Henry Ford, the late American motor magnate. 'Henry Ford was from a Cork family,' a county man explained as we strolled a safe distance behind the bowlers. 'He built a tractor plant in Cork years or so ago. The skilled workers were great road bowlers. In 1941, the plant was closed and moved to Dagenham. 'A lot of the Cork people were taken on here, but they'd only come if Ford laid on a bowling road. With the help of the local police, Launders Lane was set aside for us. But less than half of the 200 membership work at Ford.' A good knowledge of the grain and camber of Tarmacadam is required. At sharp corners, bowlers sometimes choose to lob the bowl over the verdure, hoping it will land on the road beyond. 'These two players know their Tarmacadam,' I was told. Mr Coyle makes his living from it, while Mr Burke works for John Murphy Ltd. 'There are some tricky corners,' my companion said. At one of these, there was a thud of steel on bone, followed by a cry. The bowl had bounced off a stone and connected with Tony, a traveller. 'That's a broken rib, I'd say,' my companion observed. Tony, however, was clasping his wrist, now swelling fast. 'It's hard to know,' he said. 'I once broke my leg in three places and didn't know it 'til the next morning. I was drunk.' As Mr Coyle launched his seventh shot, clipping a corner, the referee called a no-throw on the grounds that the bowler had overstepped the mark (a line of chalk drawn with a lump of ceiling plaster). Mr Coyle addressed him roundly: 'You're not going to blackguard me]' 'Back five metres,' Pat Sullivan insisted, naming the penalty. 'Have you read the rule book?' roared Mr Coyle, face red and knuckles white. 'I've read the rule book. Rules are rules.' Some of the crowd were close to apoplexy. Mr O'Driscoll, a Coyle backer, pushed towards Mr Sullivan. 'Have you the book of rules in your pocket?' he hissed through his absent teeth. 'No? Book of shit, eejit]' Then, as suddenly as umbrage can be taken, umbrage took off. With much money at stake, Mr Burke and Mr Coyle rubbed their hands in roadside dust and picked up their bowls again. (Photographs omitted) Edited September 2, 2015 by jigsaw 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKA-BRINDLE 879 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Many many years ago in England we had a game like that...then we added a bat and some stumps...give it time you boys will get there in the end Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jigsaw 11,902 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 This is a very popular sport in Cork and Armagh and in other smaller areas around Ireland. I believe the Irish used to play it in Dagenham on a Sunday morning long ago. As Jigsaw said, there's skill involved in the game. You have to be strong, accurate, cute and have the stuff to throw good bowls, with the pressure of someone betting on you to win. Some of the big scores would have thousands on the stake and lads also betting on the road. My father was involved in bowling all his life, playing, administrator and referee and spent his Sunday mornings and summer evenings bowling. He got some enjoyment from that sport. I believe that a famous terrierman who keeps a very good strain of white dogs was a handy bowler in his day. Jigsaw might know more about that? A bit like the dogs and a lot of other things in life, a lot of it is about the friends you make, the people you meet, the characters, the craic you have. Most of the bowling roads I know start and finish at a pub, which was also a big attraction, haha. rebel you know yer stuff in fairness,I do know the man your on about,spent a few years with him....another famous road bowler was the late Dennis Scully,a neighbour and decent man,Its not as easy as it looks believe me,and any prize money is hard earned, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jigsaw 11,902 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Many many years ago in England we had a game like that...then we added a bat and some stumps...give it time you boys will get there in the end hopefully not lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,489 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 " These 2 players know their tarmacadam " " have you read the rules " How can these 2 lines be in the same article Really interesting thanks for posting it chaps......last time i was over that way was to go in the old Ford Motor Museum i,ll keep an eye out in future........and i thought me and my pals bet on some mad things ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,489 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 This is a very popular sport in Cork and Armagh and in other smaller areas around Ireland. I believe the Irish used to play it in Dagenham on a Sunday morning long ago. As Jigsaw said, there's skill involved in the game. You have to be strong, accurate, cute and have the stuff to throw good bowls, with the pressure of someone betting on you to win. Some of the big scores would have thousands on the stake and lads also betting on the road. My father was involved in bowling all his life, playing, administrator and referee and spent his Sunday mornings and summer evenings bowling. He got some enjoyment from that sport. I believe that a famous terrierman who keeps a very good strain of white dogs was a handy bowler in his day. Jigsaw might know more about that? A bit like the dogs and a lot of other things in life, a lot of it is about the friends you make, the people you meet, the characters, the craic you have. Most of the bowling roads I know start and finish at a pub, which was also a big attraction, haha. rebel you know yer stuff in fairness,I do know the man your on about,spent a few years with him....another famous road bowler was the late Dennis Scully,a neighbour and decent man,Its not as easy as it looks believe me,and any prize money is hard earned, I reckon the rule book would be a fascinating read i cant work out in my head what they would involve.....what happens when a ball go,s off the road/lane......thats where the line is drawn and thrown from again i presume ? A nice ten miler on the M25 would suit me better Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOKEL 2,355 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 This is another good ol' british pastime that tickles me. stuff straw into ya socks as padding, then try and kick the feck out of each others shins! 1st class tomfoolery... Yokel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil cooney 10,416 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Many many years ago in England we had a game like that...then we added a bat and some stumps...give it time you boys will get there in the end You're joking right ? A girly game where they wear helmets and over sized shin pads ? Helmets were only brought into hurling a few years ago. The All Ireland Hurling Final is this Sunday and do yer selves a favour and look at a real sport. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rebel 846 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 This is a very popular sport in Cork and Armagh and in other smaller areas around Ireland. I believe the Irish used to play it in Dagenham on a Sunday morning long ago. As Jigsaw said, there's skill involved in the game. You have to be strong, accurate, cute and have the stuff to throw good bowls, with the pressure of someone betting on you to win. Some of the big scores would have thousands on the stake and lads also betting on the road. My father was involved in bowling all his life, playing, administrator and referee and spent his Sunday mornings and summer evenings bowling. He got some enjoyment from that sport. I believe that a famous terrierman who keeps a very good strain of white dogs was a handy bowler in his day. Jigsaw might know more about that? A bit like the dogs and a lot of other things in life, a lot of it is about the friends you make, the people you meet, the characters, the craic you have. Most of the bowling roads I know start and finish at a pub, which was also a big attraction, haha. rebel you know yer stuff in fairness,I do know the man your on about,spent a few years with him....another famous road bowler was the late Dennis Scully,a neighbour and decent man,Its not as easy as it looks believe me,and any prize money is hard earned, I reckon the rule book would be a fascinating read i cant work out in my head what they would involve.....what happens when a ball go,s off the road/lane......thats where the line is drawn and thrown from again i presume ? A nice ten miler on the M25 would suit me better Gnasher, The basics of the game or score as it is called is who can throw the bowl from the start line to the finish line in the least number of shots. Your right the line is drawn where the bowl stops. I have a bowl here I will send it over to you, you can have a score from Oxford Street down to Picadilly Square, I'm sure Boris wouldn't mine, haha. I'd say it would be hard for the Irish to win money off ye London lads, haha. Jigsaw, Denis Scully was one of the great players of the game, I believe he was very talented but wasn't as dedicated as he might have been. Mick Barry they say was the best of them all and he is mentioned in the article. There were plenty of good bowlers from your part of the city and plenty from County Armagh too. I remember seeing Scully and Barry trying to loft the viaduct on the Bandon Road around the mid eighties. I think the World Bowling championships were in Cork and there were Germans and Dutch lads competing. There were thousands there, they had the road closed and would let the traffic through every now and again, imagine trying to do that now, haha? The viaduct must be about 100 feet high, Mick Barry must have been in his sixties at the time but he lofted the viaduct with a 16 ounce bowl. Denis Scully hit the top of the viaduct but the bowl never went over, he was fairly heavy and unfit at the time. I don't know how someone wasn't killed the bowls were flying everywhere. A picture below of Mick Barry bowling, do you recognise anyone else in the picture? http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/gearine1/media/Pictures/temporary_zpsfmltjdaa.jpg.html 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jigsaw 11,902 Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 lol be jaysus you were just a slip of a lad there rebel I see you were keeping yer hands on yer cash too,lol.Bishop Buckley too lol.Scully like his pint, and rumours had it he backed himself to loose at times as it was more financially viable lol..is there a video or photographs of Mr.Barry lofting the viaduct? Thought I heard there was,be great to see, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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