Born Hunter 17,907 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 The point is our observable universe as we know it from the Big Bang is infinite... Our observable universe is without doubt finite. If it was infinite we couldn't measure it's diameter or volume or quantify any of it. In fact we wouldn't be able to see it all as it would be infinite. In the same way you couldn't fit an infinite number of marbles into your finite pocket. But the observable universe is only part of the entire universe.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 The point is our observable universe as we know it from the Big Bang is infinite... Our observable universe is without doubt finite. If it was infinite we couldn't measure it's diameter or volume or quantify any of it. In fact we wouldn't be able to see it all as it would be infinite. In the same way you couldn't fit an infinite number of marbles into your finite pocket. But the observable universe is only part of the entire universe.... Yes and that observable Universe is constantly expanding and accelerating, I should have said the Universe as we know it is infinite with the equipment we have to measure it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mushroom 13,942 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) We quantify what we see BH you know that As for the doughnut/curved space theory that is the one I think will be proven mathmatically. wtf it means afterwards is anyones guess. Edited July 30, 2015 by mushroom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 We quantify what we see BH you know that As for the doughnut/curved space theory that is the one I think will be proven mathmatically. wtf it means afterwards is anyones guess. It's already been proven with the maths and science we have, they used light and simple trigonometry and came to the conclusion that the universe as we know it flat and infinite I believe.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 We know that the universe is expanding because, with some nearby exceptions, almost every galaxy in the universe is moving away from us and from one another. Not only that, but very distant galaxies appear to be receding even more quickly, evidence that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate. Observations of various times in the universe suggest that, for the first several billion years, the universe’s expansion slowed — but then roughly 8 billion years ago, expansion began accelerating. If the acceleration continues (which seems likely), the universe will never slow its expansion or re-collapse. This corresponds to the idea of a “flat” universe, which is currently the most accepted model. But a spatially flat universe can be characteristic of either a finite or an infinite universe. When we say that space is “flat,” we mean it obeys Euclidean geometry: parallel lines never intersect, and the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees. We can imagine the universe in two dimensions as a plane, which is flat and infinite (like an infinite piece of paper). But we can also imagine taking that paper and rolling it into a cylinder, then rolling it again into a torus (doughnut shape). The surface of the torus is spatially flat, like the piece of paper, but finite. However, with expansion, it is possible that even if the universe just has a very large volume now, it will reach infinite volume in the infinite future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,907 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 We quantify what we see BH you know that As for the doughnut/curved space theory that is the one I think will be proven mathmatically. wtf it means afterwards is anyones guess. It's already been proven with the maths and science we have, they used light and simple trigonometry and came to the conclusion that the universe as we know it flat and infinite I believe.. They believe it is flat, not proven. A flat universe doesn't mean it has to be infinite. And a constantly expanding universe doesn't mean it's infinite either. The observable universe is finite in size and expanding. As I said, the curvature of space could be so slight that it lies within the error of measurement, appearing flat. There's no proof, only evidence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,907 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 it is possible that even if the universe just has a very large volume now, it will reach infinite volume in the infinite future. So, never! It's what a Physicist would call 'tending to infinity' or 'asymptotic'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 We quantify what we see BH you know that As for the doughnut/curved space theory that is the one I think will be proven mathmatically. wtf it means afterwards is anyones guess. It's already been proven with the maths and science we have, they used light and simple trigonometry and came to the conclusion that the universe as we know it flat and infinite I believe.. They believe it is flat, not proven. A flat universe doesn't mean it has to be infinite. And a constantly expanding universe doesn't mean it's infinite either. The observable universe is finite in size and expanding. As I said, the curvature of space could be so slight that it lies within the error of measurement, appearing flat. There's no proof, only evidence. There's no proof of the Big Bang yet you still believe that don't you? If the universe is flat and constantly expanding then how can it be finite? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Could you put up a link to the BBC documentary mate. How could the universe be infinite, ie eternal, if it had a beginning? It cannot be infinite if it had a beginning, an if it had a beginning, it will have an end. How do you explain the heat death paradox, this shows that the universe is not infinite. Correct me if I'm wrong mate, by how does trigometry show that the universe is infinite, I thought trig was a three pointed equation, so if we use two points here on earth an the other in the universe, were would you put that third point, if the universe has no ending, that's impossible. Even if you put the two points at the opposite end of the earth, an the third out in the universe, you can't meaurse it by the infinite scale, its astronomical, scale it down, an you will realise its impossible to meaurse. One last thing, that is a distance your meaursing, not time, so what do you mean, the earth is infinite in time or distance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,907 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 We quantify what we see BH you know that As for the doughnut/curved space theory that is the one I think will be proven mathmatically. wtf it means afterwards is anyones guess. It's already been proven with the maths and science we have, they used light and simple trigonometry and came to the conclusion that the universe as we know it flat and infinite I believe.. They believe it is flat, not proven. A flat universe doesn't mean it has to be infinite. And a constantly expanding universe doesn't mean it's infinite either. The observable universe is finite in size and expanding. As I said, the curvature of space could be so slight that it lies within the error of measurement, appearing flat. There's no proof, only evidence. There's no proof of the Big Bang yet you still believe that don't you? If the universe is flat and constantly expanding then how can it be finite? For a start how can something that has no finite volume, get bigger? It's already infinite... IF it's flat, IF. The magnitude of curvature could simply lie within the error of measurement, making it look flat. Also, IF it is truly flat I believe there are 10 possibilities for a closed, flat, 3 dimensional universe that is finite in volume. The Torus being one example. There is evidence of the big bang! There is no absolute proof of anything. So I believe in what the evidence points to as being most probable. Everything is probability, nothing is absolute. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 We quantify what we see BH you know that As for the doughnut/curved space theory that is the one I think will be proven mathmatically. wtf it means afterwards is anyones guess. It's already been proven with the maths and science we have, they used light and simple trigonometry and came to the conclusion that the universe as we know it flat and infinite I believe.. They believe it is flat, not proven. A flat universe doesn't mean it has to be infinite. And a constantly expanding universe doesn't mean it's infinite either. The observable universe is finite in size and expanding. As I said, the curvature of space could be so slight that it lies within the error of measurement, appearing flat. There's no proof, only evidence. There's no proof of the Big Bang yet you still believe that don't you? If the universe is flat and constantly expanding then how can it be finite? For a start how can something that has no finite volume, get bigger? It's already infinite... IF it's flat, IF. The magnitude of curvature could simply lie within the error of measurement, making it look flat. Also, IF it is truly flat I believe there are 10 possibilities for a closed, flat, 3 dimensional universe that is finite in volume. The Torus being one example. There is evidence of the big bang! There is no absolute proof of anything. So I believe in what the evidence points to as being most probable. Everything is probability, nothing is absolute. There's also evidence that the Universe is flat and infinite but you don't believe it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Could you put up a link to the BBC documentary mate. How could the universe be infinite, ie eternal, if it had a beginning? It cannot be infinite if it had a beginning, an if it had a beginning, it will have an end. How do you explain the heat death paradox, this shows that the universe is not infinite. Correct me if I'm wrong mate, by how does trigometry show that the universe is infinite, I thought trig was a three pointed equation, so if we use two points here on earth an the other in the universe, were would you put that third point, if the universe has no ending, that's impossible. Even if you put the two points at the opposite end of the earth, an the third out in the universe, you can't meaurse it by the infinite scale, its astronomical, scale it down, an you will realise its impossible to meaurse. One last thing, that is a distance your meaursing, not time, so what do you mean, the earth is infinite in time or distance? http://youtu.be/ybck6R9ep2A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Thanks mate, can you answer any of my counter arguments, in my last post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,907 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 There's also evidence that the Universe is flat and infinite but you don't believe it? I'm deeply sceptical of it for the reasons I have stated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Couple of mins into that vid the man says, the universe is so big, we might never find the edge, so he's admitting its not infinite it has an edge, lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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