Why Did He Do That

[rodp 316]

But most of us started with a springer because that was the ultimate tool at the time. It's like telling him to learn to drive in an Austin seven with cross ply tyres and mechanical drum brakes "because it will make you a better driver"

 

Just buy the pcp and get a springer as a toy when you can.

[VWman 232]

Dunno what this post is about but springers are king. End of.

 

The jedi way.

Hello Rez

Just so you know there is no such thing as end of just 50 shades of grey.

I am sorting a good springer out before I add a HW100 as I don't have the spare cash to get both with scopes etc at the moment.

When the guy give me the 100 to show me how light it was compared to the springers I thought yes I am going to have one of these.

Do you think they are good guns ?

[rodp 316]

In that case buddy, fair play. Any rifle is better than no rifle

[RemyBolt 420]

This is a fun one. I've seen guys go from springer to PCP and be shit hot! But I've also seen guys go from PCP to springer, and just be plain shit.

 

Which is best? Which ever you enjoy the most. I personally love my springer, and a little CO2 Ratting gun (I love this gun) and I'm happy with them. Did have an Ultra for a while, but sold it. Was always worried about damaging it, and a few other things. Damn right it shot well, but once it was dialled in, my wife, nan, or even one of the dogs could get great groupings with it. Okay, maybe not the dogs. For me at least, the challenge (and therefor the increased fun) is in the springer. But your mileage may vary.

 

If I was going to be a pro-pest controller, no questions asked PCP!!! But for the average hobbiest, a springer will provide more of a "Damn, I'm improving" kind of experience, and I take great satisfaction in that. When you first start shooting a springer, you'll be happy to hit a piece of A4 paper. Then a postcard, then you'll be getting smaller groups, and you'll find yourself consistently getting kill-groups. From start to 'finish' you'll really notice a difference. A springer will test multiple elements of your shooting, body position, breathing, recoil response, and a lot of field-craft if you're going for quarry, that a PCP wouldn't.

 

With a PCP, it's a lot easier to get good with a few aspects of shooting, and the gun will respond well. And suddenly you're a sniper (in your head) but you'll not get the same 'slow' achievement curve. You'll consider things using a springer that you wouldn't think about with a PCP.

 

As has been said, you'll end up with both for sure. You'll favour one, and be lucky if you shoot them with a 60/40 split. It'll be more like 80/20 split.

 

Whatever happens, buy quality, and the resale on which ever you don't want, or want to upgrade, will be pretty good.

 

Or, do what I do, buy cheap for fun and hope you get better at it haha. Do as I say, not as I do.

[pianoman 3,584]

Hi mate, ditto to rodp.

 

You`ll never regret owning a HW 100, nor do you need any spring rifle shooting before hand.

 

atb

From my own experience, after a lifetime of shooting spring rifles, I can at least, appreciate the nicety and efficient accuracy of recoiless shooting with a PCP. But honestly, without wishing to offend anyone, to say spring rifles are a novelty is really wide of the truth.

 

Rod you really should invest some time with your HW97 mate, you have a way better rifle than you seem to think and you are denying yourself a genuine pleasure!

 

True, you don't need to own a spring rifle to enjoy getting into accurate shooting with a PCP like an HW100. BUT...You won't learn anything of any skill in marksmanship by shooting a PCP alone. These rifles correct all your bad habbits to the point where you will not realise you even have any!

 

Shooting a spring rifle successfully requires you to be able to shoot correctly and properly.

 

Having experienced owning and hunting with PCP rifles for myself, I much prefer to shoot and hunt live quary with my spring rifles. I trust them. They work. and they are every bit as accurate as any PCP I've come across and shot with.

 

Of course, buy an HW100 by all means, but, equally well, you can buy a proper, top notch spring rifle, learn to master it and then, see how really bloody good you are wiith a PCP! Like hit a genuine one-hole, pellet's width group of ten shots at 45 metres with it. A 5p piece over that lot looks like covering it with a dustbin lid!

 

Again I don't want to rub anyone up the wrong way but, from my own experiences, I can't tell you how satsfying it is to have a thorough grounding in shooting springers to feel the real benefits of PCP shooting.

 

Best regards.

Simon

[Pink or stink 162]

 

Hi mate, ditto to rodp.

 

You`ll never regret owning a HW 100, nor do you need any spring rifle shooting before hand.

 

atb

From my own experience, after a lifetime of shooting spring rifles, I can at least, appreciate the nicety and efficient accuracy of recoiless shooting with a PCP. But honestly, without wishing to offend anyone, to say spring rifles are a novelty is really wide of the truth.

 

Rod you really should invest some time with your HW97 mate, you have a way better rifle than you seem to think and you are denying yourself a genuine pleasure!

 

True, you don't need to own a spring rifle to enjoy getting into accurate shooting with a PCP like an HW100. BUT...You won't learn anything of any skill in marksmanship by shooting a PCP alone. These rifles correct all your bad habbits to the point where you will not realise you even have any!

 

Shooting a spring rifle successfully requires you to be able to shoot correctly and properly.

 

Having experienced owning and hunting with PCP rifles for myself, I much prefer to shoot and hunt live quary with my spring rifles. I trust them. They work. and they are every bit as accurate as any PCP I've come across and shot with.

 

Of course, buy an HW100 by all means, but, equally well, you can buy a proper, top notch spring rifle, learn to master it and then, see how really bloody good you are wiith a PCP! Like hit a genuine one-hole, pellet's width group of ten shots at 45 metres with it. A 5p piece over that lot looks like covering it with a dustbin lid!

 

Again I don't want to rub anyone up the wrong way but, from my own experiences, I can't tell you how satsfying it is to have a thorough grounding in shooting springers to feel the real benefits of PCP shooting.

 

Best regards.

Simon

 

Can't agree that a PCP does a single thing to correct any habit's; that's down to the shooter. You will still pull a shot, you will still incorrectly read holdover, you will still flinch at the last minute, you might still hold your breath, still mis-read the wind. To me the PCP does one thing differently to a PCP which is not recoil. It gives you one less thing to think about.

 

[RodN 41]

 

Rod you really should invest some time with your HW97 mate, you have a way better rifle than you seem to think and you are denying yourself a genuine pleasure!

 

Yes!

I know that my HW97KT is a great rifle. I have owned it for a few years, and it has accounted for quite a lot of vermin. In fact I am now 70 years old, and have been shooting with a springer since I was a teenager. It was only 15 years ago that I used a scope for the first time! That suddenly felt like cheating.

 

 

True, you don't need to own a spring rifle to enjoy getting into accurate shooting with a PCP like an HW100. BUT...You won't learn anything of any skill in marksmanship by shooting a PCP alone. These rifles correct all your bad habbits to the point where you will not realise you even have any!

Shooting a spring rifle successfully requires you to be able to shoot correctly and properly.

 

 

 

True... I can't argue with that! (Especially a springer with iron sights).

 

 

Having experienced owning and hunting with PCP rifles for myself, I much prefer to shoot and hunt live quary with my spring rifles. I trust them. They work. and they are every bit as accurate as any PCP I've come across and shot with.

 

 

Indeed... the rats pigeons and magpies, etc. still fall over the same. Dead is dead.

However....

The main reason that I bought the HW100T a couple of months ago is to have faster shots at multiple live targets.

 

That realisation came about one afternoon last summer when I shot eight magpies in the time that it took to reload the HW97KT each time. I shot one, and a load more came in screeching (could have done with earplugs!) I have never seen so many magpies at the same time, and the sound drew them in from a mile around to mob the one on the ground..... and then the next, and the next. It took them quite a while to decide to disappear. It was a hectic couple of minutes. If I could have loaded faster then I could have had more.

 

I decided right then that I wanted a PCP air rifle with a 14 shot magazine. The HW100T.

 

It really paid dividends a week ago.... 72 rats in one evening. There were times when it was point, click-clunk.... point, click-clunk. One after the other, with seconds between each shot.

The HW100T had come into its own.

 

 

 

Again I don't want to rub anyone up the wrong way but, from my own experiences, I can't tell you how satsfying it is to have a thorough grounding in shooting springers to feel the real benefits of PCP shooting.

 

Best regards.

Simon

 

 

Absolutely right.

The springer will make you a good shot, with plenty of practice.

The PCP will then add:

1. Quietness (needed to not scare multiple live targets)

2. Speed of reloading (needed with multiple targets)

3. Tiny recoil (not particularly for accuracy, you learn that with the springer, but it makes for a smoother shot).

 

In reality... most of the time, a springer will do the job absolutely perfectly. Especially a great rifle like the HW97KT. There have been many times recently when mooching around one of my farm permissions all afternoon, that I find that there are only four holes in the 14 shot magazine of the HW100T when I came to remove it, and one of those was spent unloading the rifle.

 

Cheers

Rod

Edited March 15, 2015 by RodN

[Dr B 186]

But most of us started with a springer because that was the ultimate tool at the time. It's like telling him to learn to drive in an Austin seven with cross ply tyres and mechanical drum brakes "because it will make you a better driver"

 

Just buy the pcp and get a springer as a toy when you can.

 

No it is'nt - and you're analogy is factually incorrect.

 

The springer puts more weight on any small failings in your technique. If you start with a springer, and learn to shoot that well, it will help you with a PCP - even though its a very different gun. Having done both, you will then appreciate differences in grip strength, stances, etc.

 

This is whats known as an asymmetry in the learning curve. Much better to go springer then PCP rather than the other way around. Of course, if you dedicate yourself to learning how to shoot properly, you will end up being as good either way (probably) - but one way will be more efficient and thus, effective. I'm not saying one gun is better than the other, but a certain trajectory in learning is more efficient.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Dr B

[Rez 4,957]

Is this topic still going on?

[rodp 316]

 

But most of us started with a springer because that was the ultimate tool at the time. It's like telling him to learn to drive in an Austin seven with cross ply tyres and mechanical drum brakes "because it will make you a better driver"

 

Just buy the pcp and get a springer as a toy when you can.

 

No it is'nt - and you're analogy is factually incorrect.

 

The springer puts more weight on any small failings in your technique. If you start with a springer, and learn to shoot that well, it will help you with a PCP - even though its a very different gun. Having done both, you will then appreciate differences in grip strength, stances, etc.

 

This is whats known as an asymmetry in the learning curve. Much better to go springer then PCP rather than the other way around. Of course, if you dedicate yourself to learning how to shoot properly, you will end up being as good either way (probably) - but one way will be more efficient and thus, effective. I'm not saying one gun is better than the other, but a certain trajectory in learning is more efficient.

 

Believe me, the analogy is factually correct. If you drive a vehicle with no synchro, mechanical brakes and crossply tyres it will show up any small failings in your driving. But why would you want to learn in one then jump into a new vehicle with auto box, self parking, power steering etc, etc ??? Times move on, no point in learning old tricks if you're never going to use them.

 

What I was trying to put across is why learn to shoot a springer then use a pcp. It's odds on nowadays that folk who buy a modern pcp as a first rifle will never use a springer in anger, why would they unless just out of curiosity?

 

Springers are good, they're interesting and I have a few, but I use one of the pcp's for hunting as they're quiet, always accurate, multi shot, light and just easier and simpler to use. Springers I use for plinking, so it doesn't really matter if I miss.

[Dr B 186]

Your analogy is not correct, and saying It twice does not make it true....I think springers are used way more than you assume. You are reading this thread arn't you?

Edited March 16, 2015 by Dr B

[mark williams 7,549]

One of my mates is a gunsmith with his own shop and has long ago told me that 85% of his air gun sales are pcp .

I would state that i would not drop pcp`s for a springer but i am considering which springer as back up only.

 

Each to their own i guess but 85% are in agreement in my mates shop.

[rodp 316]

Yep, reading the thread, and apologies you don't understand the analogy I have springers, so do a lot of mates, but we play with springers not hunt. If we go hunting it's because pests need removing and we take an applicable calibre. If it's air then it's pcp, they get the job done every time with no fuss or hassle.

 

Can't understand for the life of me why you would advise someone to learn on a rifle they'll never use if they can afford a pcp. In this case the op is buying a springer for cost reasons, fair enough. But originally he was going to buy a pcp OR a springer. This was when I said don't bother with the springer first, just get the pcp. very few folk who have both use the springer as the main hunting rifle, now and again maybe.

 

Oh, go drive an old car some miles then you'll definitely understand it.

[rodp 316]

One of my mates is a gunsmith with his own shop and has long ago told me that 85% of his air gun sales are pcp .

I would state that i would not drop pcp`s for a springer but i am considering which springer as back up only.

 

Each to their own i guess but 85% are in agreement in my mates shop.

Yep, believe that no problem. Some just don't want to believe it though

[Dr B 186]

One of my mates is a gunsmith with his own shop and has long ago told me that 85% of his air gun sales are pcp .

I would state that i would not drop pcp`s for a springer but i am considering which springer as back up only.

 

Each to their own i guess but 85% are in agreement in my mates shop.

 

Because your mates shop stocks more PCPs....right? Coincidence?

 

I actually think most core airgunners have both, and would not be without their springer and use them as a serious hunting weapon. I don't recognise the view of some around here of only using a springer for plinking....I think they are projecting a little too much of what works for them onto advice for others.....balanced advice always works