Twisted Gut

[socks 32,253]

 

 

 

Also has anyone had a lurcher that is slow to take interest in moving things?

I have all the patience in the world so I am not worried but whilst on walks she doesn't seem bothered by squirrels or ducks or anything really,

Is this normal?

Keep the pup focussed on you as long as you can, it will pay dividends in the long run as in having more control

When a pup is overtly reacting to movement he is then acting on instincts a state which is uncontrollable for owners ,

The longer you can be a focus for his attention the better, don't be in rush to throw away his interest in you, it makes training much easier,

Best of luck with pup

I have to totally disagree ... A dog working on instinct is the foundations and building blocks of training a dog to do what you want it to do ... A collie herds sheep through instinct ... The guarding breeds protect through instinct ... Running dogs chase through instinct ... It's this instinct we encourage and harness into what we want ... The trick is to harness the instinct and prey drive and mould it into what you want ... I would rather a running dog pup that chased everything it saw than one I had to kick up the arse to get moving ......

I know where your coming from but a instinct is a uncounsious reaction with no intervention from handler , whereas drive sheepdog style is a controlled state which has 3 elements , sheep , dog and handler, it is a state where the dog can actively control its behavior for the benefit of the group , not so an instinct

If you let a collie pup loose in a field with sheep it will instinctively round them up ... It will do the same with chickens ducks anything that will move away from it ... No handler intervention ... Its pure instinct .............

[Casso 1,261]

It sure will, the intelligence is already in there waiting to be harnessed but a sheepdog pup needs man to sustain its drive it don't need to kill , working with man is enough to fulfill it,

And that's what I like to facilitate in a running dog , not to be hyper stimulated by movement but to be able to take instruction while in a driven state, the pup will hunt anyway but I like a handle on its prey making before introducing it to the most exciting thing it will encounter , prey

[matt1979 766]

Interesting points and always good to see other peoples perspectives on how running dogs work. In truth the dogs I have grown up with take very little direction at all and generally the retrieve and recall is about it. Is there a risk if a dog is too concerned about direction it will catch less, genuine question. The reason I say is all the hunting I have done, a dog needs to instinctively react to its game without a second thought otherwise 9 times out of 10 the chance of a catch has gone if that makes sense and in truth I have never meet a person that knows as much as a good working dog about catching, for example, where to be at the right time etc. Hope that makes some sense. Always fascinated to see how these more trained (for want of a better word) lurchers and runners work atb

[Casso 1,261]

When a dog is hunting it's hunting it don't wait to be told to run but what I'm trying to get across is that I want the pup to believe that what happens, say a rabbit getting up is somehow controlled by me, for starting on the lamp it's ideal

 

That way he says close and he listens and he thinks the sun shines out of my ring , it cuts out a multitude of problems

So I try not to have him stimulated by movement ,

I have to go breaking him to all animal movement after that domestic or otherwise at a stage in his life where I don't want to be confronting him

 

Working with dogs is about making life as easy as you can to achieve a goal, I don't like to have to iron out problems Im the fecking creator of

[slipper 116]

I will let her be a pup and do it in her own time, it doesn't bother me how long it takes, I was only really asking to see if other people had pups with next to no prey drive which turned into good adult dogs

[Casso 1,261]

What I will tell ya about drive mate is, real drive not prey instinct involves sexuallity , what fella's call juvenile stage when pups start misbehaving , it's not because their trying your patience on purpose it's because their driven to be fullifed by more , it's the call of the wild,

If the fecker is not chasing at that stage you have a issue,

[slipper 116]

Ok cheers casso

[socks 32,253]

Casso I think you delving to deeply into what is a simple thing .... Prey drive and instinct is what make a running dog chase ... It's that simple ... Give me a pup that will chase anything that moves over a pup that won't every day of the week ... Its much easier to harness a dog and slow it down than it is to get it going .........

[Qbgrey 4,253]

i would nt worry to much,bond with it,play with it etc.some of my best lurcers were the laid back ones at pups.i will not play/train activities that dont want the dog to do whens its working.ie.tug of war,u dont want to instill jeaulousy of the object its retrieving.use a alleyway,not wide,roll the ball slowly past.

[skycat 6,174]

I think it also depends on the amount of experience and knowledge the owner has. Much easier to start off with something that isn't too driven. Personally I wouldn't like a pup that simply has to chase everything and anything from a very early age. And it also depends a lot on the breeding, temperament and individual mindset. I've had pups from the rough coated line I keep who haven't even tried to catch a myxie rabbit at 3 months, but at 6 months they've run straight up to one, picked it up and retrieved it with virtually no training.

 

At 3 or 4 months most pups that have more 'nose' in their breeding, (as opposed to pure sighthounds which are usually stimulated to chase by anything that moves) will be busy sniffing along the ground: the nose develops before sight is clear, and a lurcher pup's instinct shouldn't be to run flat out into the distance on something it has no hope of catching. You can see the different senses developing as the pup matures. Sure you may want that desire to run flat out after something in the distance if you are after coursing dog that will need massive amounts of drive to take it miles on the back of a hare, but for rabbits, mouching etc you'd be better off with something that is less sight driven. Just my opinion if someone is after an all round dog rather than a point-aim-fire missile.

[terryd 8,920]

Also has anyone had a lurcher that is slow to take interest in moving things?

I have all the patience in the world so I am not worried but whilst on walks she doesn't seem bothered by squirrels or ducks or anything really,

Is this normal?

 

 

I am looking at it from the other side of fence my pup was hunting up at 4 months and I had to protect him from him self. But I failed in that and his injured so enjoy the relaxing times while you can and concentrate on training I reckon. It's not such as bad thing I have come to realise

[skycat 6,174]

In answer to your original question, it is extremely unlikely that playing will cause a twisted gut: just watch a litter of pups play like lunatics just after a meal. The causes of twisted gut (bloat) are many, but are very rare in young pups: more likely to happen if the adult dog inhales a lot of air while it is eating and there is some underlying physical attribute (very deep chested dogs seem to be more prone), but I've never seen it in my life in my own dogs, of all shapes and sizes. If it were more common then we'd hear more about pups dying from it. It really is very very rare indeed, but all the same, not worth working a dog that has just had a big meal. Pups are on several small meals per day, which also lessens the risk of bloat.

[Casso 1,261]

Casso I think you delving to deeply into what is a simple thing .... Prey drive and instinct is what make a running dog chase ... It's that simple ... Give me a pup that will chase anything that moves over a pup that won't every day of the week ... Its much easier to harness a dog and slow it down than it is to get it going .........

I do delve a little deeper socks, into the why in relation with dogs but in saying that I believe pups can be manipulated for our own good by management,

I don't dislike an up and at them pup in fact I prefare it but the younger they are stimulated , the harder it is to override it or reel it back if it's not exceptable, in the case of running dogs it's not a huge issue if owners are savvy and know the ropes,

But the amount of lads with problem juvenile dogs is massive and too much to soon is usually the cause

I'm not big in reinforceimg recall with a pup in a lot of cases your setting yourself up for a fall , I just try to manage the pup so he can't get too distracted and what's gradually sinking in is that he believes I'm the good guy, and the one to be obeyed for his own benefit , I just don't want to be constantly correcting a pup at a time where his social learning is at its strongest

Edited January 5, 2015 by Casso

[slipper 116]

Thanks for the replies folks